OKW Handheld AT solution.

ehm

penals are 6 man squads so its 5 rifles with ptrs and riflemen are 5 so with bazooka that 4 rifles lol

you get 2 ptrs with the ptrs upgrade

Pretty sure thats basic knowledge.

You do realize guard PTRS does not hamper their AI(as already mentioned in this very thread) and guards are much, MUCH more expensive elite doctrinal infantry?

What is your point?

Do you put up P4s against IS-2 to prove P4s are weak too?

Nice that you speak the cost...this 6 volks squad cost more than 4 guards. If you could calc...

And for a AT unit like the ptrs guards...which melt down an AI unit...strange. it is like jackson would have better ai than sturmpanzer.

And yes...the 4nguards won easily.


While they could fight a KT alone too...

Nice that you speak the cost...this 6 volks squad cost more than 4 guards. If you could calc...

And for a AT unit like the ptrs guards...which melt down an AI unit...strange. it is like jackson would have better ai than sturmpanzer.

And yes...the 4nguards won easily.


While they could fight a KT alone too...

Guards are NOT an AT unit.

Guards are full AI unit with AT capabilities as ALL of their weapons are good vs infantry.

Guards PTRS does not equal the Penal PTRS

Guards PTRS do not have the same debuff modifiers that the Penals do. Therefore the Guards PTRS still have AI ability.

Whether guards should start off with PTRS is another issue. Since id feel like it be easier to balance if guards had to choose between PTRS or DPs instead of trying to make it a light counter to infantry and LVs the current way they work either makes them really strong or really weak.

Light Counter? They have better ai than full vet equiped volks

Guards are NOT an AT unit.

Guards are full AI unit with AT capabilities as ALL of their weapons are good vs infantry.

Right...they have one of the best at Performance....while one of the best ai Performance. They shred german squads while shredd kingtigers.

Right...they have one of the best at Performance....while one of the best ai Performance. They shred german squads while shredd kingtigers.

Ok, now you are snorting warp dust.

Guards are not equipped with dual shrecks.

Ok, now you are snorting warp dust.

Guards are not equipped with dual shrecks.

In which case is it relevant with what weaponn they deal heavy dmg vs Tanks?

They deal very good dmg vs armor and infantery. Mostly better than dedicatet at infantery or ai infantery. Aweful.

I managed to get a +7 streak with sov yesterday in a area where i constantly lose with okw.

Why? Did i get through a magical explosion more skill when i pick sov? Or is this faction more better for my playstile?

It is totally easy with sov. It is nearly boring to play them because all units are so strong that it doesnt mater when u make failures. It doesnt count. Make a fail move with okw...and you will punished hard for that.

In which case is it relevant with what weaponn they deal heavy dmg vs Tanks?

Quite so, because PTRS does not deal heavy damage to tanks.
Its blatant lie to say otherwise.

Its reliable, steady DPS, but you need to be on drugs to state its "heavy" damage.

They deal very good dmg vs armor and infantery. Mostly better than dedicatet at infantery or ai infantery. Aweful.

I managed to get a +7 streak with sov yesterday in a area where i constantly lose with okw.

Good for you, report back when you'll leave placement matches.

Why? Did i get through a magical explosion more skill when i pick sov? Or is this faction more better for my playstile?

Go read up what placement games are.

It is totally easy with sov. It is nearly boring to play them because all units are so strong that it doesnt mater when u make failures. It doesnt count. Make a fail move with okw...and you will punished hard for that.

Alright then, what's your playercard in this case?
I want to see your 20-0 streak into top 30.
Its so easy after all you must be there already.

Quite so, because PTRS does not deal heavy damage to tanks.
Its blatant lie to say otherwise.

Its reliable, steady DPS, but you need to be on drugs to state its "heavy" damage.

They deal very good dmg vs armor and infantery. Mostly better than dedicatet at infantery or ai infantery. Aweful.


Good for you, report back when you'll leave placement matches.


Go read up what placement games are.


Alright then, what's your playercard in this case?
I want to see your 20-0 streak into top 30.
Its so easy after all you must be there already.

What i said doesnt mean i will beat everyone with other faction...even top 10 players. It means only that i beat people easy where i struggle when playing okw.

By the way...i beat yesterday 3-4 teams where are on Rank around 300. Hmm...

And they played as team.

If okw did not have flak truck, I would be okay with adding double shreks on sturms or obers. Allowing sturms to use a minesweeper and a shrek is a good choice a s well.

Guards are NOT an AT unit.

Guards are full AI unit with AT capabilities as ALL of their weapons are good vs infantry.

Can you pls elaborate on these new theory about Guards a bit more.

Penal are an AI. If they upgrade with PTRS they become an AT unit.

Guards that have better AT weapon than Penals are "NOT" an AT unit because?

And the joke is:

guards are not that much slower to kill a KT than panzergres would need to kill a KT!!


and guess what? guards kill upgraded panzergrens with dropping only some models!

(was a 3 guards vs 4 upgraded panzergrens CLOSE COMBAT fight)

conclusion: guards are super strong vs infntery while not much bad than dedicatetd AT inftery vs tanks.


for only a few more manpower! And guess what? you pay only 27manpower to recrew a guard model...while elite german infntery need 37-40 manpower per model....lel


edit: i have all testet it in testgame on testrange map....you can have the replay!

Can you pls elaborate on these new theory about Guards a bit more.

Penal are an AI. If they upgrade with PTRS they become an AT unit.

Guards that have better AT weapon than Penals are "NOT" an AT unit because?

Alright, since you struggle to understand that:

AT infantry units give up AI for AT capability.

Guards do not.
They can still engage tanks, but their weapon upgrades and their vet ability is most certainly not suited to fight tanks, it does help, but its not primary reason.

You want guards as powerful AI unit as well as light armor deterrent, not as a primary way to deal with tanks, they will support ATGs and TDs with button, but that's it, if you are actually capable to get enough of them to effectively counter tanks, you might want to cut down on 4v4.

Alright, since you struggle to understand that:

AT infantry units give up AI for AT capability.

Guards do not.
They can still engage tanks, but their weapon upgrades and their vet ability is most certainly not suited to fight tanks, it does help, but its not primary reason.

You want guards as powerful AI unit as well as light armor deterrent, not as a primary way to deal with tanks, they will support ATGs and TDs with button, but that's it, if you are actually capable to get enough of them to effectively counter tanks, you might want to cut down on 4v4.

So according to Katitof in order for a unit to be an AT unit it has to:

1) Give up for AI for their AT

But Guards default weapon is the mosin that has better AI than their PTRS so they have actually given up AI for their AT

2) Their vet ability must not suited for fighting tanks

But guards already get a vet bonus specifically for dealing with armor.
vet 2 +10% penetration
vet 3 +30% duration of the 'button' ability
But Guards already have access to AT ability with the "button" ability.

Is this correct or did I miss anything?

here guys..i made a test video with serverals szenarois:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/235222348

we can see:

- Guards need nearly the same time to kill KT like panzergrens
- guards schredd panzergrens with even lose not more than 20% from models
- guards kill volks with no problems

and some mor stuff...

The PTRS is the Molotov of AT. it will kill, if the enemy is actually hellen keller and sits there while you do DOT to them. It denies the area to armour but lacks the burst potential of other AT all of whom can hip fire laser guided rockets if they get in range for a fraction of a second. Penals ARE over performing ATM but the ptrs as a weapon is fine (its the combination of the ptrs and the raw power of the SVT that is too much.)

The PTRS is the Molotov of AT. it will kill, if the enemy is actually hellen keller and sits there while you do DOT to them. It denies the area to armour but lacks the burst potential of other AT all of whom can hip fire laser guided rockets if they get in range for a fraction of a second.

Perfectly explained. Burst damage > DoT. I'll further expand on my previous post about the test of Penal PTRS vs Grens and how it can be misleading although i was just presenting raw fact/test.

I'll start by saying i only did it because i was smelling BS on the claim that Grens would lose 100% of the time on a controlled environment. If you want the results, you can check some post behind.
The thing is, this was a laboratory 1v1 engagement without regard of how many models were left fighting, at how low HP nor how long it would take. This are all aspects which have weight in real games. A full HP single model gren will probably take 2 Penal models with PTRS, but that's not a gamble i'll like to take. Because the game doesn't work with isolated cases. Fighting with 2 models grens against a 3/4 Penal PTRS can get scary even if you are gonna end up winning the engagement. What would happen if we add a 2nd Penal/Gren to the fight? The PTRS model is dead weight Ai wise, but it makes the player feel "safer" when they have to retreat.

Going back to PTRS as an AT weapon. No one playing this game will sit down units for more than 30s without any kind of input whatsoever. Units move, cut LoS, chase, retreat. A Panzerschreck, zook or PIAT poses an immediate threat. If i send a PIV, T34, Sherman or Cromwell to an area on where there is more than one of them, i know i'll take some heavy damage guaranteed. A Tommy AT rifle or PTRS ? If i don't give the rear and stay for too long there's no risk.

Better AT (handheld) for OKW ?

Start with Sturmpios, rak, T4 and getting JPIV sooner.

Sturmpios:
-Let them get both Pschreck and minesweeper. If both sweeper bolster could be disabled.
-Try with a double schreck at T4 after unlocking AA gun.

Rak:
-Remove some power from stealth and move it into baseline. You can be creative from, going 45 range while stealth but 55 normal, 82HP models, a bigger AT gun hitbox for blocking/protecting crew, whatever.

T4:
-Make Obers and JPIV arrive faster or without as much of an investment. Split T4 cost so you can unlock them sooner and leave the upgrade for PIV/PV and the gun.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/235222348?t=01m03s

Here see you a example where the KT had a dmg engine...what is a normal situation in a fight vs a KT when you want him to kill seroiusly.

it is so slow that is no problem to kill it....even with the "dot" dmg from guards...tell us...why is it dot dmg when guards shot with the ptrs...and not when panzergrens shot with faust? ptrs make even dmg when not penetrading...its a "do dmg whenever u shot" sometime more..sometime less....but its not a "dot"