Hello everybody!
I went through all KotH season 2 games so far, in AECoH's youtube channel and the respective spreadsheets, and got the winrates for each faction.
First of all, huge thanks to the King of the Hill organizers - A.E and Stormless, the people that support this event and the awesome players giving us those awesome fights!
KEEP IT UP GUYS
So, here are the stats...
Allies 23 wins
Axis 21 wins
SOV vs OKW = 5-5
SOV vs OST = 6-5
UKF vs OKW = 1-4
UKF vs OST = 1-3
USF vs OKW = 8-3
USF vs OST = 2-1
All these games were played with the December Patch in effect. It's interesting to see the balance between the factions in top level player skills, as the samplesize gets larger, taking into account that in almost half of these games, Soviets were the allied faction.
So, the Soviet vs Axis matchup seems prety even.
UKF seems to be in trouble so far, is the least played faction - the top players have probably sensed it being somewhat weaker and not choosing it.
USF looks remarkably and unexpectedly strong vs OKW. Versus OST the sample is very small.
Looking forward for more KotH!
KotH faction winrates (up to S2E9)
27 Feb 2018, 10:04 AM
#1
Posts: 10
27 Feb 2018, 11:35 AM
#2
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
UKF is not a 1v1 Army as far as I can tell, I mean it's self-sufficient unlike the OKW which needs the OST's T0 MG42s and resource caches but other than that it's problem lies in it having to rely on immobile, expensive and short ranged indirect fire as far as I can tell.
Sure Mobile Assault remedies that somewhat, however you need 8 CPs for that, 350 manpower and 40 or 50 fuel, not sure how much it was, I think it was 45 for the land mattresses there, which do not have auto barrage and are slower than mortar teams.
And I honestly don't see why the UKF should be the special snowflake when it comes down to indirect fire, every other Army has mobile indirect fire but the Brits, for what reason exactly? To keep the Army "unique" but retarded? Stop with this bullshit please, I'd rather have a balanced and fun Army to play as rather than something "unique" as this:
http://jokegurus.com/wp-content/uploads/unique-fork.jpg
Sure Mobile Assault remedies that somewhat, however you need 8 CPs for that, 350 manpower and 40 or 50 fuel, not sure how much it was, I think it was 45 for the land mattresses there, which do not have auto barrage and are slower than mortar teams.
And I honestly don't see why the UKF should be the special snowflake when it comes down to indirect fire, every other Army has mobile indirect fire but the Brits, for what reason exactly? To keep the Army "unique" but retarded? Stop with this bullshit please, I'd rather have a balanced and fun Army to play as rather than something "unique" as this:
http://jokegurus.com/wp-content/uploads/unique-fork.jpg
27 Feb 2018, 22:19 PM
#3
Posts: 10
Yes, I guess the UKF base guns cannot be counted as indirect fire. Is that their only weakness tho?
I feel that another restriction is tommies being so fragile in early game, especialy in top level where the aggresion begins very early.
I feel that another restriction is tommies being so fragile in early game, especialy in top level where the aggresion begins very early.
27 Feb 2018, 22:54 PM
#4
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Yes, I guess the UKF base guns cannot be counted as indirect fire. Is that their only weakness tho?
I feel that another restriction is tommies being so fragile in early game, especialy in top level where the aggresion begins very early.
Imo UKF are rather unforgiving 1vs1, a single mistake can cost allot.
On the other hand in 2vs2 (with another faction) they are quite strong imo.
It seems that USF are quite strong thou and that seems to have allot to do with M36 being OP.
Are there any stats on how many games Ostheer used doctrinal infantry or abilities (g43,camo)?
27 Feb 2018, 23:08 PM
#5
Posts: 747 | Subs: 2
It seems that USF are quite strong thou and that seems to have allot to do with M36 being OP.
Certainly it must be this 140 fuel, 640 hp, 160 dmg, no ai tank whose only strength lies in a 60 range cannon with a turret...
 | Playercard of RedT3rror | |||||||||||||||
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27 Feb 2018, 23:13 PM
#6
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Certainly it must be this 140 fuel, 640 hp, 160 dmg, no ai tank whose only strength lies in a 60 range cannon with a turret...
M36 is not a Tank its a Tank destroyer.
Do you have a better explanation for the USF performance in the series?
27 Feb 2018, 23:20 PM
#7
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Certainly it must be this 140 fuel, 640 hp, 160 dmg, no ai tank whose only strength lies in a 60 range cannon with a turret...
I dont know what to make of this post. Are you trying to say the M36 is op? Or are you saying it´s not?
27 Feb 2018, 23:43 PM
#8
Posts: 773
Since the patch I've been really struggling with UKF in 1v1, I've managed to stay below rank 80 but I struggle now Vs rank 300+ players.
You can't rely on Tommies anymore to hold ground whilst you stall for a Cromwell, you HAVE to get them the 5 man to stand a chance then you need the AEC for a snare and those combined becomes very expensive.
Not even mentioning how the current OST mortar is, lazer guided nukes and in pairs... Everyone moaned about the mortar pit, fair enough, but at least that thing couldn't move.
I had a game yesterday Vs OKW and to keep up I needed 5 man, brens and an AEC, by the time he had his first p4 out I had to really fight to keep it at bay with my AT gun and AEC until I could field a Cromwell.
I think that is the issue, everything is so expensive that you need to keep a level playing field and it delays future tech, whereas axis get everything just from teching up and can pop upgrades on the field.
They fixed a lot of issues with Brits in the patch but I think some things might have been overlooked/over nerfed.
You can't rely on Tommies anymore to hold ground whilst you stall for a Cromwell, you HAVE to get them the 5 man to stand a chance then you need the AEC for a snare and those combined becomes very expensive.
Not even mentioning how the current OST mortar is, lazer guided nukes and in pairs... Everyone moaned about the mortar pit, fair enough, but at least that thing couldn't move.
I had a game yesterday Vs OKW and to keep up I needed 5 man, brens and an AEC, by the time he had his first p4 out I had to really fight to keep it at bay with my AT gun and AEC until I could field a Cromwell.
I think that is the issue, everything is so expensive that you need to keep a level playing field and it delays future tech, whereas axis get everything just from teching up and can pop upgrades on the field.
They fixed a lot of issues with Brits in the patch but I think some things might have been overlooked/over nerfed.
28 Feb 2018, 00:04 AM
#9
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Hey nice post man. Good to see some overall stats.
28 Feb 2018, 02:59 AM
#10
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...You can't rely on Tommies anymore to hold ground whilst you stall for a Cromwell, you HAVE to get them the 5 man to stand a chance then you need the AEC for a snare and those combined becomes very expensive.
...
Have you tried Centaur against OKW they are quite good.
28 Feb 2018, 03:53 AM
#11
Posts: 253
UKF has been repeatedly smashed with nerfs, their poor performance is expected.
Surprised that OKW won more matches then OST, considering OST has sniper. Can anyone say why OKW is more popular?
Surprised that OKW won more matches then OST, considering OST has sniper. Can anyone say why OKW is more popular?
28 Feb 2018, 05:05 AM
#12
Posts: 955
Since the patch I've been really struggling with UKF in 1v1, I've managed to stay below rank 80 but I struggle now Vs rank 300+ players.
You can't rely on Tommies anymore to hold ground whilst you stall for a Cromwell, you HAVE to get them the 5 man to stand a chance then you need the AEC for a snare and those combined becomes very expensive.
Not even mentioning how the current OST mortar is, lazer guided nukes and in pairs... Everyone moaned about the mortar pit, fair enough, but at least that thing couldn't move.
I had a game yesterday Vs OKW and to keep up I needed 5 man, brens and an AEC, by the time he had his first p4 out I had to really fight to keep it at bay with my AT gun and AEC until I could field a Cromwell.
I think that is the issue, everything is so expensive that you need to keep a level playing field and it delays future tech, whereas axis get everything just from teching up and can pop upgrades on the field.
They fixed a lot of issues with Brits in the patch but I think some things might have been overlooked/over nerfed.
And are you combining your army properly or rely too much on Tommies? Because they have no chance if you make three of them from the start and try to get as much ground as possible. But if you only make one (+have the starting ones) then go vickers and bren (carrier) and evenly balance the combat contribution of these units, then all of them, including Tommies should handle it and keep casualties on minimum.
I agree with the Ost mortar though, that thing is just ridiculous.
Btw it sucks that most of the time in KoTH Im seeing players go 3 tommies to open up and then bleed into oblivion
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
28 Feb 2018, 07:01 AM
#13
Posts: 2243
I dont know what to make of this post. Are you trying to say the M36 is op? Or are you saying it´s not?
yes Jackson is (too) strong.
2 from it deniy every axis armor easily because of selfspoting, fast and mobile turrented design.
its is the strongest nondoc TD ingame. while the usf squads with upgreades one of the strongest too....so OKW lack of AT and AI.
it means you have trouble to deal with infantery AND armor because it will both deniyed by the USF units with no big problems.
if you looked the KotH series in twitch...everybody complains about the jackson OPness when it was showed...and the weakness from OKW units actually.
This is the reality...and not a ullumulu meme
1 Mar 2018, 09:11 AM
#14
Posts: 42
M36 is not a Tank its a Tank destroyer.
Do you have a better explanation for the USF performance in the series?
Have you actually watched ANY of the games? I have watched nearly all of them since the patch and i can't remember a game where a Jackson was actually built by the USF player....
And if your using King of the hill to argue for balance.... the skill difference between these players and the rest of the people in the top 200. They might as well be playing a different game.
1 Mar 2018, 09:43 AM
#15
Posts: 2243
Have you actually watched ANY of the games? I have watched nearly all of them since the patch and i can't remember a game where a Jackson was actually built by the USF player....
WTF did you looked? There was many games where ths USF player build Jackson...and mob the floor with german armor.
1 Mar 2018, 10:10 AM
#16
Posts: 42
I am honestly curious which EP your talking about. I just rewatched Episode 1 and I saw Theo use the Jackson there, but theo pretty much won that game the before the Jackson even came out. All the VODs i watched after the patch came on Ep4 was the only one where the Jackson was used. (though i will say the Jacksons dominated that match at the end. Funny enough the USF player still lost.) These are the only like 3 of the 15 matches?
1 Mar 2018, 12:37 PM
#17
Posts: 2243
I am honestly curious which EP your talking about. I just rewatched Episode 1 and I saw Theo use the Jackson there, but theo pretty much won that game the before the Jackson even came out. All the VODs i watched after the patch came on Ep4 was the only one where the Jackson was used. (though i will say the Jacksons dominated that match at the end. Funny enough the USF player still lost.) These are the only like 3 of the 15 matches?
I made some work on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IEFACagRh4 || Jackson inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqrcKYww9ME || Jackson inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnQWr7qAo_Q || no jackson || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAlezFydzwE&t=2415s || Jackson inside || USF lost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlzbgkY8z88&t=1s || no jackson || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYQFDj2kp2A || no jackson || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du0lLF-ca_A&t=984s || no jackson || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq0_aUFp4NE || Jackson inside || USF lost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hwkV4tRcRc || Jackson inside || USF lost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNxxPFsvjo4 || Jackson SPAM inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnaj126Pm3Y&t=871s || Jackson inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls4e7pld-5s&t=1469s || Jackson inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vWh_GPZMLQ&t=600s || Jackson inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FogmCDOi9o || Jackson inside || USF lost
14 games |||| 10/14 games with Jackson |||| 10/14 won by USF
so no..i think you seen the koth like us...or you forgett all the jacksons.
And most game with jackson was clearly a win....so...now you
1 Mar 2018, 12:58 PM
#18
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I made some work on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IEFACagRh4 || Jackson inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqrcKYww9ME || Jackson inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnQWr7qAo_Q || no jackson || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAlezFydzwE&t=2415s || Jackson inside || USF lost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlzbgkY8z88&t=1s || no jackson || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYQFDj2kp2A || no jackson || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du0lLF-ca_A&t=984s || no jackson || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq0_aUFp4NE || Jackson inside || USF lost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hwkV4tRcRc || Jackson inside || USF lost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNxxPFsvjo4 || Jackson SPAM inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnaj126Pm3Y&t=871s || Jackson inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls4e7pld-5s&t=1469s || Jackson inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vWh_GPZMLQ&t=600s || Jackson inside || USF won
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FogmCDOi9o || Jackson inside || USF lost
14 games |||| 10/14 games with Jackson |||| 10/14 won by USF
so no..i think you seen the koth like us...or you forgett all the jacksons.
And most game with jackson was clearly a win....so...now you
Want me to tell you why USF needs to use end game tank destroyer against tanks?
Would you feel better if zook blob did AT duty instead?
Would you want to nerf panther if I have linked you 10 vids featuring panther and okw win?
What exactly is your Point?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
1 Mar 2018, 13:23 PM
#19
Posts: 2243
Want me to tell you why USF needs to use end game tank destroyer against tanks?
Would you feel better if zook blob did AT duty instead?
Would you want to nerf panther if I have linked you 10 vids featuring panther and okw win?
What exactly is your Point?
they guy told us that there was not that much Jackson in the koth series. This was wrong..proven by this table. not more.
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