Soviet sniper

The soviet mod of COH also used a sniper team. In real life sniper also work as team.

Yes, this is correct. But still it is incomprehensible in my opinion to not just say 'well, fuck the idea. Ost and Sovs both have one guy and they can countersniper each other, gg' but then to tweak complicated aim times, balance it via incendiary shots and cloak times, etc...

It's like we have a tree on our path and instead of removing the tree, we build the road around it. Only for the sake of having something 'special'.

I also never understood why Relic held so tightly to that cheesy decision to have Soviet sniper teams.
I'm pretty sure that someone 2012 just came up with the idea 'Hey guys, let's give Sovs a sniper. BUT TWO!'

Its almost as if Relic didn't wanted snipers to be countered by snipers as sniper wars were cancer of coh1.
Let me also remind you that these 2 models do not have 82 hp each.

Yes, this is correct. But still it is incomprehensible in my opinion to not just say 'well, fuck the idea. Ost and Sovs both have one guy and they can countersniper each other, gg' but then to tweak complicated aim times, balance it via incendiary shots and cloak times, etc...

It's like we have a tree on our path and instead of removing the tree, we build the road around it. Only for the sake of having something 'special'.

sniper wars bewteen single snipers were the reason i quit coh1

Its almost as if Relic didn't wanted snipers to be countered by snipers as sniper wars were cancer of coh1.
Let me also remind you that these 2 models do not have 82 hp each.

sniper wars bewteen single snipers were the reason i quit coh1

I don't see how the two boyed/girled sniper team is a solution to fix the sniper war. In vCoH if you had two snipers, the one who shot first won (if he shot the sniper of course, lol). In CoH2 the Sov sniper will always win if shooting first OR second. Of course there are the different cloak times and aiming times which were introduced to fix this problem (as far as I know this was meant that the German sniper could recloak faster than the Sov was able to aim). But here is where in my opinion the problems start, because as this was somehow balanced in vanilla CoH2 in 2013, a lot of things have changed since then. Snipers are way longer visible after a shot (cloaked units in general).

IMO the sniper wars from vCoH are history in the predecessor is because of the new cloaking system based on cover which makes more sense and is in my opinion also more rewarding for good micro.

But still I stand behind my opinion that balancing a 'gimmick feature' is way harder than to just remove the gimmick and mirror the stats more or less. Maybe let the German one reload a tick faster because of the bigger Soviet unit sizes.

Yes, this is correct. But still it is incomprehensible in my opinion to not just say 'well, fuck the idea. Ost and Sovs both have one guy and they can countersniper each other, gg' but then to tweak complicated aim times, balance it via incendiary shots and cloak times, etc...

It's like we have a tree on our path and instead of removing the tree, we build the road around it. Only for the sake of having something 'special'.

Well the approach of a spotter member and sharp shooter member is a good start.

That would make the sniper team become less efficient if the lose a member.
(One could have the team spawn with only the spotter member and have to upgrade to the shooter member.)

Another change that could help all sniper would be to reduce damage 64 and have more damage vs support weapons even if it meant reducing price.(or reduce the HP of support weapons to 60 and their TS to 1).

I don't see how the two boyed/girled sniper team is a solution to fix the sniper war. In vCoH if you had two snipers, the one who shot first won (if he shot the sniper of course, lol). In CoH2 the Sov sniper will always win if shooting first OR second. Of course there are the different cloak times and aiming times which were introduced to fix this problem (as far as I know this was meant that the German sniper could recloak faster than the Sov was able to aim). But here is where in my opinion the problems start, because as this was somehow balanced in vanilla CoH2 in 2013, a lot of things have changed since then. Snipers are way longer visible after a shot (cloaked units in general).

Ost sniper is deterred from engaging sov sniper due to 2 man team and sov sniper can't engage ost sniper due to having to drink a bottle of vodka before every single shot(you need to a-move ost sniper and forget about him to lose him to slow firing sov sniper, but I know that plenty of people do exactly that instead of backing away after each shot vs sov t1). These two combined result in obvious "sniper wars not intended" sign in CoH2.

I'm fully aware how coh1 sniper wars went, been there, done that, it was still one of THE most cancerous game elements.

Camo, while important, isn't that much more relevant because there is cover literally everywhere in coh2 anyway and 1 man snipers have camo hopping.

And no, this wasn't balanced in CoH1 at all, snipers never were nor never will be balanced because of core of their role and functionality.

IMO the sniper wars from vCoH are history in the predecessor is because of the new cloaking system based on cover which makes more sense and is in my opinion also more rewarding for good micro.

But still I stand behind my opinion that balancing a 'gimmick feature' is way harder than to just remove the gimmick and mirror the stats more or less. Maybe let the German one reload a tick faster because of the bigger Soviet unit sizes.

German sniper already shoots much faster then sov one, it simply doesn't kill a model every other second anymore as time between the shots no longer decreases with distance.

Thing is that the fact that the soviet sniper team is a two model squad isn't a problem, the problem is that both models can snipe if one of them is killed and maybe its rate of fire is too high seeing how it fights 4/5 models istead of wehr sniper fighting 5/6 models.

Snipers could move while cloaked without any cover in coh1. This made sniper play an entirely different game, as spotting and scouting with snipers was a huge component of competitive play. Positioning a sniper for a counter snipe was a challenging risk-reward type task.

None of the snipers in coh2 are anywhere close to what vcoh snipers were like. They inherited one element of their predecessors: multiples can reach critical mass.

There aren't bikes or jeeps, and it's often unfeasible for snipers to set up a countersnipe due to how cloaking works. I don't think any recon runs in coh2 can reveal cloaked units either.

Usually it's just snipe and retreat because snipers can typically outrun sniper aim time and get out of range.

Thing is that the fact that the soviet sniper team is a two model squad isn't a problem, the problem is that both models can snipe if one of them is killed and maybe its rate of fire is too high seeing how it fights 4/5 models istead of wehr sniper fighting 5/6 models.

That would be a great fix while keeping the 2 man squads

Quick question though, wouldn't it be hard to prevent the second model from sniping completely? Maybe a extended cooldown if the sniping model is killed would be easier to code.

Snipers could move while cloaked without any cover in coh1. This made sniper play an entirely different game, as spotting and scouting with snipers was a huge component of competitive play. Positioning a sniper for a counter snipe was a challenging risk-reward type task.

None of the snipers in coh2 are anywhere close to what vcoh snipers were like. They inherited one element of their predecessors: multiples can reach critical mass.

There aren't bikes or jeeps, and it's often unfeasible for snipers to set up a countersnipe due to how cloaking works. I don't think any recon runs in coh2 can reveal cloaked units either.

Usually it's just snipe and retreat because snipers can typically outrun sniper aim time and get out of range.

PLANES recon runs reveal cloaked units. Flares, extended vision range, minimap spotting and simil abilities don't do so.

Okay cool thanks for the clarification, thiugh that's specifically plane recons, not the sight from any planes from non recon runs, correct?

I feel like the ostheer recon loiter didn't reveal cloaked units, but my experiences are becoming increasingly faded.

According to:
https://www.coh2.org/guides/52852/the-coh2-ability-guide

Recon Sweeps and Overflights

Reveals all camouflaged unit types and units in the fog of war. *Currently the Ostheer Recon overflight and Recon pass abilities do not reveal camouflaged units like the other recon flights.*

I was always more fond of the idea that when it goes down to 1 model it is unable to fire and has to be reinforced.

According to:
https://www.coh2.org/guides/52852/the-coh2-ability-guide

Recon Sweeps and Overflights

Reveals all camouflaged unit types and units in the fog of war. *Currently the Ostheer Recon overflight and Recon pass abilities do not reveal camouflaged units like the other recon flights.*

I think the guide is outdated. I definitly spotted snipers with my Ostheer recon flight.
(There are mor abilitys not up to date)

I had this killer idea one night, and I never forgot it since. It was so great, but so simple it could be summed up in 2 words. Show Spoiler

In real Life, a KT killed a SU85 with one shot at a range of 1500m, easily.
Its about the sniper balance, nobody needs 2 men squad snipers, they ruin teamgames.

The counters need buffed, not necessarily the 2nd man. Yall forget that some axis squads have the ability to highly condense DPS onto a single model (grens, obers, ostroppen) and the rest have pretty solid on the move weapons or long range weapons (some like fussies have both) a single model could quite easily be focused down by bad RNG and unlike the ost and the brits the soviet dont have immediate access to MGs to keep potential rushes away.

Additionally the ONLY way for soviet to heal units is in their base sector and only after 250mp

Ost can get med kits on next to every squad with some vet, or a bunker with medics (not cheap, but at least can be on field) and can have no pop fortifications to help against infantry flanks/ rushes as well (again, not cheap but 100% viable in team games, which is where you cited the problem of 2 man snipers)

The brits can heal everyone with a single small munitions cost or have a fancy 2 in 1 (or like 4 in 1 if you count weapon racks and defensive ary) strong point sappers build.

A single soviet model could take a burst from an LMG then have literally no option but hard retreat all the way to base

If made 1 man i would STRONGLY suggest its vet 1 be changed from the stolen flare ability that used to be no vet to something wmthat adresses the previous concern on durability, perhaps something like passive heal out of combat and in friendly territory or a reduced target size (maybe both) as a straight up worse version of the ost sniper would be bullshit