Comet

I was comparing their roles, not their performance.

The comet has better performance than the Panther when you consider all the factors, not just straight AT performance. Cost is justified.

Then puma vs t-70 wasn't an accurate comparison, and should not have been brought up.

The current wehr panther have gotten a buff to both its reload time and its machine, making it a more well rounded unit overall if still leaning into anti-tank. (The comet and panther both also got a pop nerf to 18 so that they are even).

If panther is to be truly committed to the idea of being an anti-tank specialist, then lose the mg buff. If the mg is really so inconsequential then nerfing it back shouldn't be an issue.

Then puma vs t-70 wasn't an accurate comparison, and should not have been brought up.

It was a perfectly valid comparrison that other people understood, you just refuse to.

The current wehr panther have gotten a buff to both its reload time and its machine, making it a more well rounded unit overall if still leaning into anti-tank. (The comet and panther both also got a pop nerf to 18 so that they are even).

If panther is to be truly committed to the idea of being an anti-tank specialist, then lose the mg buff. If the mg is really so inconsequential then nerfing it back shouldn't be an issue.

You realize you pay for the pintle mg, right?
Are you honestly getting squad wiped by the Panther?

You realize you pay for the pintle mg, right?
Are you honestly getting squad wiped by the Panther?

Well, being devils advocate for a moment here, you did paid for pintle on stug for years and it did literally nothing more then nice sound.

It was a perfectly valid comparrison that other people understood, you just refuse to.

You realize you pay for the pintle mg, right?
Are you honestly getting squad wiped by the Panther?

it was a comparison between a more expensive unit against its intended cheaper prey. The comet is not a cheaper unit to the panther currently and thus a 1 to 1 comparison is not valid.

and "squad wiping" is not the only metric of how good a unit is against infantry. There are still level of effectiveness between "squad wiping" and "trickle them with rubber bullet".


Is the panther's mg effective against infantry, yes or no? effectiveness is not 1 or 0.

and anecdotal evidence with the panther is not really helpful. Maybe I've wiped a few squad with panther while base raping.

it was a comparison between a more expensive unit against its intended cheaper prey. The comet is not a cheaper unit to the panther currently and thus a 1 to 1 comparison is not valid.

and "squad wiping" is not the only metric of how good a unit is against infantry. There are still level of effectiveness between "squad wiping" and "trickle them with rubber bullet".


Is the panther's mg effective against infantry, yes or no? effectiveness is not 1 or 0.

and anecdotal evidence with the panther is not really helpful. Maybe I've wiped a few squad with panther while base raping.

So basically you're just going to ignore every argument I've said in the last few posts and argue semantics.
Not going to bother. I've made my case.

Well, being devils advocate for a moment here, you did paid for pintle on stug for years and it did literally nothing more then nice sound.

It's buffed now

Comets need a AI buff and they´d be fine really. And with AI buff I mean a SLIGHT one. Not back to pre-nerf Comet levels.

Right now Comets do very very very little vs infantry and really dont do their job as a generalist tank.

Comets need a AI buff and they´d be fine really. And with AI buff I mean a SLIGHT one. Not back to pre-nerf Comet levels.

Right now Comets do very very very little vs infantry and really dont do their job as a generalist tank.

No man. Need to buff comet like Arno plays pubg with Kar98. Headshots only or miss completely.

Serious note: give the comet and crom a SLIGHT scatter buff and I'd buy them again. But currently centaur + FF combo is significantly more potent than 2x comet.

No man. Need to buff comet like Arno plays pubg with Kar98. Headshots only or miss completely.

Serious note: give the comet and crom a SLIGHT scatter buff and I'd buy them again. But currently centaur + FF combo is significantly more potent than 2x comet.

hp and armor dude; no way 2 comet lose to ff+ centaur, maybe with 2 centaur + ff

hp and armor dude no way 2 comet lose to ff+ centaur maybe with 2 centaur

what?

Centaur +ff eh? Hopefully the enemy doesnt build 2 tanks

Centaur +ff eh? Hopefully the enemy doesnt build 2 tanks

lol...are you even serious? FF + AT gun deals with two tanks just fine.

No man. Need to buff comet like Arno plays pubg with Kar98. Headshots only or miss completely.

Serious note: give the comet and crom a SLIGHT scatter buff and I'd buy them again. But currently centaur + FF combo is significantly more potent than 2x comet.

Agree totally.

Brit AT guns Kreygasm

So basically you're just going to ignore every argument I've said in the last few posts and argue semantics.
Not going to bother. I've made my case.



It's buffed now

your argument was based off a poor comparison, ignoring the difference in economic involved in between the comet vs panther and t-70 vs puma.

No man. Need to buff comet like Arno plays pubg with Kar98. Headshots only or miss completely.

Serious note: give the comet and crom a SLIGHT scatter buff and I'd buy them again. But currently centaur + FF combo is significantly more potent than 2x comet.

the scatter on comet and cromwell gun is the same as the panzer4, so it's still decent.

What I miss the most about the cromwell is actually it's 18 size. It was basically the only medium tank in the game with viability late game because of its survivability. Now the cromwell have the same problem as the panzer4, t34/76, and sherman75 where they become fodder once the advanced medium and heavy arrive.


and I think the comet's main fault is its price/performance ratio, and acceleration. The comet is certainly a step above the E8 and t34/85mm, but not quite a good deal at its present cost and upkeep. Right now it fills a good gap between the FF, centuar, and cromwell in terms of role and performance.



and historically the comet had a much better P/W than the panther. The Comet isn't heavy enough to brawl with the german heavy and should have the out run what it can't out fight.

your argument was based off a poor comparison, ignoring the difference in economic involved in between the comet vs panther and t-70 vs puma.

The difference is literally 10 manpower and 10 fuel on both units.

My argument was based of the stats of the actual tank. You latched on to a comparison regarding the role of the tanks I made because you wanted to circle jerk about semantics. Explain to me why you think the comet is overpriced using the stats of the tank. Don't forget it has the armor of a tiger, the penetration of a tank destroyer, the speed of a light tank, abilities that let it frontally wipe AT guns, the size of a medium, and an actual main gun for shooting infantry.

The difference is literally 10 manpower and 10 fuel on both units.

My argument was based of the stats of the actual tank. You latched on to a comparison regarding the role of the tanks I made because you wanted to circle jerk about semantics. Explain to me why you think the comet is overpriced using the stats of the tank. Don't forget it has the armor of a tiger, the penetration of a tank destroyer, the speed of a light tank, abilities that let it frontally wipe AT guns, the size of a medium, and an actual main gun for shooting infantry.

the panther have better armor(320 vs 290), Better Range(50 vs 45), Better acceleration(2.6 vs 2.2), better coaxial and hull mg (combined 10.43 at far vs 6.68) , better penetration (220 vs 170 at far range).

The panther was actually the fastest tank in the game before the british release. 6.6 is faster than either the t34 or the sherman tank, or even the jackson. The panther's native acceleration is also higher than most medium+ tank in the game, tying with the cromwell but losing to the jackson (3.0).

Aside from british tank, the Panther was basically impossible to flank barring glaring mistake. After the mega patch, british warspeed was also nerfed to panther blitz standard.

the panther's rolled gun accuracy is about the same as a comet with tank commander, because of range scaling.

the comet's max range is 45m, but its far range is 40m. This means the comet's gun accuracy is .03 from 45-40m because you're in the far range zone. The unit doesn't get any increase in accuracy going from 45 to 40m. Furthermore, the 77mm's mid range is 20 m.

Meanwhile, the panther's gun range is max and far at 50 and mid range at 25m. This allow the panther to gain better benefit from range scaling.

The panther's accuracy at 45m is .033, same as the comet with tank commander. Conversely, comet with tank commander at 25 m is about .0453, about the same as the panther.

This scaling also apply to penetration as well.

veterancy:
vet1 comet: wp
vet1 panther: blitz
vet2 comet: +35% faster turret, +30% accuracy
vet2 panther: +40% faster turret, +160 hp
vet3 comet: + 30% top speed, +20% acceleration (8.97 sp, 2.64 acce). crew auto throw grenade.
vet3 panther: 30% faster reload, +20% rotation speed, +10% acceleration. (36 rot speed, 2.86 acce. 4.78 sec reload)

pretty tough to argue against 960 hp and 4.78 sec reload. The boost to the panther's acceleration and Rotation speed also mean it can crush infantry, if not as good as the old cromwell.

170 penetration is good, but simplifying to "penetration of a tank destroyer" is again only taking into account label and not actual stats.

170 is basically the lower end of TD penetration in the game. the stug and jp4 both struggle against the heavier allies. The stug have amazingly dps (4second) for its price and the jp4 is durable and excellent against medium tank and TD, but their 170 penetration will struggle against allied heavy tank. (much less axis heavy tank)

Similarly, the comet's penetration of 170 penetration will struggle against axis heavies, something which the comet is sure to face.

meanwhile the panther have one of the highest pen in the game, roughly on par with the Allies' best AP weapon (the su-85 and jackson). Just stating "comet have the penetration of a TD" seriously misrepresent the penetration capability of the stug vs the jackson. They might both be labeled "TD", but I wouldn't want to be stuck with a stug against a tiger (or an IS-2).

The panther can reliably win against most allied tank, with the notable exception of the Is-2, which the panther can outrun. Having the panther means having the security of tank superiority over most allied unit.

The Comet meanwhile will reliably lose against the panther unless the axis had a bunch of bad roll, and the tiger and King tiger will roll over the comet. You definitely still need a firefly against axis heavy.

and the comet's current anti-tank strength is fine. Previously it was crowding out the Firefly. Now the british have actual need to use the Firefly. As I said the main issue I have is mainly cost and acceleration.


and lastly AOE and scatter. Unfortunately it's one of the hardest area to describe. Its aoe and scatter is roughly the same as the panzer4, but with a slower reload.

The comet is decent against infantry but no mean amazing. Its WP range have been cut down to 45 as it actually need to dive a bit to use it (no more wp sniping from 80 m). Natively, the comet fire slower with no mg, so it's actually worst than the cromwell, t34, panzer, and sherman against infantry.

Against, comet might have the AP of TD and the AI of a medium tank, but that's basically the weakest of the TD and weakest of the Medium. There's a difference between the jackson vs the stug, and HE sherman vs gun only panzer4.

the panther have the same mg as the panzer4, and they will kill infantry. It's not as good as an AOE gun but still there. direct comparsion between shell and mg is diffcult as they rely on entirely different roll.

Panther

though this was a Comet thread.

After reading all that one would come to the conclusion that the Panther is great when actually it is struggling. People still use the Stug over the Panther most of time.

the panther have better armor(320 vs 290), Better Range(50 vs 45), Better acceleration(2.6 vs 2.2), better coaxial and hull mg (combined 10.43 at far vs 6.68) , better penetration (220 vs 170 at far range).

The panther was actually the fastest tank in the game before the british release. 6.6 is faster than either the t34 or the sherman tank, or even the jackson. The panther's native acceleration is also higher than most medium+ tank in the game, tying with the cromwell but losing to the jackson (3.0).

Aside from british tank, the Panther was basically impossible to flank barring glaring mistake. After the mega patch, british warspeed was also nerfed to panther blitz standard.

the panther's rolled gun accuracy is about the same as a comet with tank commander, because of range scaling.

the comet's max range is 45m, but its far range is 40m. This means the comet's gun accuracy is .03 from 45-40m because you're in the far range zone. The unit doesn't get any increase in accuracy going from 45 to 40m. Furthermore, the 77mm's mid range is 20 m.

Meanwhile, the panther's gun range is max and far at 50 and mid range at 25m. This allow the panther to gain better benefit from range scaling.

The panther's accuracy at 45m is .033, same as the comet with tank commander. Conversely, comet with tank commander at 25 m is about .0453, about the same as the panther.

This scaling also apply to penetration as well.

veterancy:
vet1 comet: wp
vet1 panther: blitz
vet2 comet: +35% faster turret, +30% accuracy
vet2 panther: +40% faster turret, +160 hp
vet3 comet: + 30% top speed, +20% acceleration (8.97 sp, 2.64 acce). crew auto throw grenade.
vet3 panther: 30% faster reload, +20% rotation speed, +10% acceleration. (36 rot speed, 2.86 acce. 4.78 sec reload)

pretty tough to argue against 960 hp and 4.78 sec reload. The boost to the panther's acceleration and Rotation speed also mean it can crush infantry, if not as good as the old cromwell.

170 penetration is good, but simplifying to "penetration of a tank destroyer" is again only taking into account label and not actual stats.

170 is basically the lower end of TD penetration in the game. the stug and jp4 both struggle against the heavier allies. The stug have amazingly dps (4second) for its price and the jp4 is durable and excellent against medium tank and TD, but their 170 penetration will struggle against allied heavy tank. (much less axis heavy tank)

Similarly, the comet's penetration of 170 penetration will struggle against axis heavies, something which the comet is sure to face.

meanwhile the panther have one of the highest pen in the game, roughly on par with the Allies' best AP weapon (the su-85 and jackson). Just stating "comet have the penetration of a TD" seriously misrepresent the penetration capability of the stug vs the jackson. They might both be labeled "TD", but I wouldn't want to be stuck with a stug against a tiger (or an IS-2).

The panther can reliably win against most allied tank, with the notable exception of the Is-2, which the panther can outrun. Having the panther means having the security of tank superiority over most allied unit.

The Comet meanwhile will reliably lose against the panther unless the axis had a bunch of bad roll, and the tiger and King tiger will roll over the comet. You definitely still need a firefly against axis heavy.

and the comet's current anti-tank strength is fine. Previously it was crowding out the Firefly. Now the british have actual need to use the Firefly. As I said the main issue I have is mainly cost and acceleration.


and lastly AOE and scatter. Unfortunately it's one of the hardest area to describe. Its aoe and scatter is roughly the same as the panzer4, but with a slower reload.

The comet is decent against infantry but no mean amazing. Its WP range have been cut down to 45 as it actually need to dive a bit to use it (no more wp sniping from 80 m). Natively, the comet fire slower with no mg, so it's actually worst than the cromwell, t34, panzer, and sherman against infantry.

Against, comet might have the AP of TD and the AI of a medium tank, but that's basically the weakest of the TD and weakest of the Medium. There's a difference between the jackson vs the stug, and HE sherman vs gun only panzer4.

the panther have the same mg as the panzer4, and they will kill infantry. It's not as good as an AOE gun but still there. direct comparsion between shell and mg is diffcult as they rely on entirely different roll.

comet still has more maximum speed (6.9 vs 6.6 at vet 0), 10 more sight range with tank commander, less target size (22 vs 24), more rotaion (32 vs 30),comes with vt0 smoke and granade to fuck AT-guns pretty easly, the 30% accuracy makes it same as ff gun but a bit better at mid close range, the FREE auto granade deal deflection damage (30) so they can actually matter in brawls for engine damage treshold. in conclusion the comet is a main battle tank with good pen and good ai, if u face heavy just build a ff if not the comet will give u better results

though this was a Comet thread.

After reading all that one would come to the conclusion that the Panther is great when actually it is struggling. People still use the Stug over the Panther most of time.

balancing mean comparison with a different unit. How the unit in question perform in relation with a different.

attempting to balancing without looking at similar unit is balancing in a vacuum. It's useless.

it's also possible that both the panther comet are struggling. the jump to 18 pop is pretty harsh.

comet still has more maximum speed (6.9 vs 6.6 at vet 0), 10 more sight range with tank commander, less target size (22 vs 24), more rotaion (32 vs 30),comes with vt0 smoke and granade to fuck AT-guns pretty easly, the 30% accuracy makes it same as ff gun but a bit better at mid close range, the FREE auto granade deal deflection damage (30) so they can actually matter in brawls for engine damage treshold. in conclusion the comet is a main battle tank with good pen and good ai, if u face heavy just build a ff if not the comet will give u better results

it's a bit of give and take between the panther and comet.

The higher top speed is also a bit useless on its own without great acceleration or warspeed. Armor warfare in coh 2 tends to be a stop and go affair. You are unlike to reach top speed without the acceleration.

balancing mean comparison with a different unit. How the unit in question perform in relation with a different.

attempting to balancing without looking at similar unit is balancing in a vacuum. It's useless.

And here lies the issue. Panther and Comet are not similar unit, they have different roles.

The comparison might even had some validity if they where facing equal threats, but allied TDs and AT infantry are more cost efficient that axis one.

To make thing even worse Panther is unit that is not actually balanced since it has trouble of its own and should not be used as benchmark until first it gets balanced.