What are your thoughts on the 222's ability to counter snipers
I have seen the 222 deal with plenty of M8's. I know 2 of them can win against a T-70/AEC. It is also good vs vehicles as the description says.
The description also says its good vs snipers.
Unfortunately from what I have seen from my own games and others' streams, the 222 seems to be underperforming against snipers. But the 222 doesn't seem to hit its target, especially when chasing the target.
The 222's ability to counter snipers
9 Jan 2018, 16:05 PM
#1
Posts: 264
9 Jan 2018, 17:10 PM
#2
Posts: 818
Ya its pretty bad, Ive seen 222s running around in base fail to kill snipers, ofc soviet snipers.
Not that it can't do it but its certainly very slow considering the limited windows the unit has and the lack of other options vs snipers
Not that it can't do it but its certainly very slow considering the limited windows the unit has and the lack of other options vs snipers
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9 Jan 2018, 17:13 PM
#3
1 
Posts: 2885
It is said to be a sniper counter becouse it has sniper detection. It does not deal a whole lot of damage to infantry, but IMO enough to kill the sniper.
9 Jan 2018, 17:33 PM
#4
Posts: 2742
It was supposed to be a scout car. But it was altered to try and fill a light tank role and anti light vehicle role simultaneously.
Essentially it was changed to accommodate changes that have since changed.
Essentially it was changed to accommodate changes that have since changed.
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9 Jan 2018, 17:35 PM
#5
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
One could reintroduce the 221 and have specialized in killing snipers...(starting with prioritizing snipers since its difficult to drive and aim)
Actually it would solve many issues, since one could then make 222 more expensive and better vs light tanks (and worse vs AI if it is needed).
Actually it would solve many issues, since one could then make 222 more expensive and better vs light tanks (and worse vs AI if it is needed).
9 Jan 2018, 18:14 PM
#6
Posts: 320
I think sometimes it's up to the RNG gods to determine if a sniper counter actually counters its intended target. Sometimes my M20 wipes a sniper in half a second, other times I literally chase a sniper halfway across the map and into his base and still haven't killed it. Were it up to me I'd make sniper counters OP as hell cuz I genuinely hate snipers.
9 Jan 2018, 18:37 PM
#7
1 Posts: 2885
I think sometimes it's up to the RNG gods to determine if a sniper counter actually counters its intended target. Sometimes my M20 wipes a sniper in half a second, other times I literally chase a sniper halfway across the map and into his base and still haven't killed it. Were it up to me I'd make sniper counters OP as hell cuz I genuinely hate snipers.
Its not rng, its the RA buff on retreat and acc debuff on the move. If the sniper doesn't retreat in time, it gets killed by a stationary m20 in split second. If it is on retreat it is harder to hit so you actually might need to follow it to the base so that the bonus wears off.
9 Jan 2018, 18:39 PM
#8
Posts: 823 | Subs: 3
Well the 222 does feel a little underwhelming vs Soviet snipers, since it has to kill 2 Models. Against brits i had not that much issues
Me: I am scared, that i will need to shake ma head the same as when i read ur posts, so i rather not
Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
9 Jan 2018, 19:20 PM
#9
Posts: 4474
or one could remove the cannon and add a cost for some armor and the cannon so you could have a anti inf scout car and by upfgrading you lose the anti inf but gain at and armor to small arms
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
9 Jan 2018, 19:49 PM
#10
Posts: 766 | Subs: 2
or one could remove the cannon and add a cost for some armor and the cannon so you could have a anti inf scout car and by upfgrading you lose the anti inf but gain at and armor to small arms
I would not mind this. This would also allow UC, M3s, and WC 51 for room to play against Ostheer while the 221 (a 222 with out the cannon) could cost less making it a good flanker on at guns and help for rapid response on enemy flanking maneuvers if un-upgraded.
9 Jan 2018, 19:54 PM
#11
Posts: 2742
I would not mind this. This would also allow UC, M3s, and WC 51 for room to play against Ostheer while the 221 (a 222 with out the cannon) could cost less making it a good flanker on at guns and help for rapid response on enemy flanking maneuvers if un-upgraded.
M20 as well, which could really use a better window. Although it's best window is against ostheer to begin with.
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9 Jan 2018, 20:00 PM
#12
Posts: 264
I would not mind this. This would also allow UC, M3s, and WC 51 for room to play against Ostheer while the 221 (a 222 with out the cannon) could cost less making it a good flanker on at guns and help for rapid response on enemy flanking maneuvers if un-upgraded.
I too like this idea. It would definitely help osteer get a vehicle out earlier, so that osteer has a mobile response to the UC, M3s, and WC 51. These 3 vehicles are excellent at harassing osteer in the early game because osteer's counters aren't as mobile as these vehicles. The counters I can think of are faust, though its range is limited (for good reasons) mines (which is immobile
) and incendiary ammo on the MG if you can get it to vet1 fast enough.but yeah, 221 to help dealing with infantry and such
9 Jan 2018, 20:56 PM
#13
Posts: 4474
m20 just need armor percing round at vet 0 and swap the wepon profile so it behave like a LMG (strong long but not much better close)
M20 as well, which could really use a better window. Although it's best window is against ostheer to begin with.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
9 Jan 2018, 21:41 PM
#14
Posts: 2243
imagine a 20mm autocanon shot on you..you will be shredd in sec.
it s sad that axis light cars have trouble to kill a sov sniper while allie cars seems to have a bonus dmg vs ost sniper...they mostly kill him on the hunt with no problem...while sov sniper run to his base and run around the headquarter
it s sad that axis light cars have trouble to kill a sov sniper while allie cars seems to have a bonus dmg vs ost sniper...they mostly kill him on the hunt with no problem...while sov sniper run to his base and run around the headquarter
9 Jan 2018, 23:00 PM
#15
Posts: 818
I think the general issue is that as a hard counter the 222 is not a very hard counter. A 221 might be cheaper but the 222 already has the 221 mg. For the resources invested sniper counters don't work well enough. And they leave you vulnerable to more standard lategame armys, especially if they fail.
The 251 could also be an effective tool vs snipers but its weapons are quite impotent and it doesn't have a turret
I have compiled some clips of scout cars trying to kill snipers and one of a gren trying to kill a sniper model for comparison. This is a small sample but something tangible for discussion
2 222s vs 2 snipers, one of each dies
https://clips.twitch.tv/BoxyFamousAsteriskSuperVinlin
https://clips.twitch.tv/DullBashfulPicklesHoneyBadger
https://clips.twitch.tv/BlushingOptimisticPicklesUncleNox
Gren kills a retreating sniper from midrange easily for comparison to other damage during retreat, possibly lucky but still shows what infantry can do from close range that scoutcars can struggle to achieve.
https://clips.twitch.tv/TentativeBelovedWalletPJSugar
The 251 could also be an effective tool vs snipers but its weapons are quite impotent and it doesn't have a turret
I have compiled some clips of scout cars trying to kill snipers and one of a gren trying to kill a sniper model for comparison. This is a small sample but something tangible for discussion
2 222s vs 2 snipers, one of each dies
https://clips.twitch.tv/BoxyFamousAsteriskSuperVinlin
https://clips.twitch.tv/DullBashfulPicklesHoneyBadger
https://clips.twitch.tv/BlushingOptimisticPicklesUncleNox
Gren kills a retreating sniper from midrange easily for comparison to other damage during retreat, possibly lucky but still shows what infantry can do from close range that scoutcars can struggle to achieve.
https://clips.twitch.tv/TentativeBelovedWalletPJSugar
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10 Jan 2018, 06:24 AM
#16
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
or one could remove the cannon and add a cost for some armor and the cannon so you could have a anti inf scout car and by upfgrading you lose the anti inf but gain at and armor to small arms
Didn't we already go through this situation and realise that having another munition sink early on for OH was bad. On the other hand it could be tried to be mp + fuel instead.
Autocannon is bad against infantry unless it gets lucky rolls against clumped squads against cover. Although that's not the role of the of it's gun. The AI comes from the MG which fires in burst and mostly it's not enough even if we account for the accuracy bonus against snipers.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
10 Jan 2018, 08:46 AM
#17
Posts: 2243
Didn't we already go through this situation and realise that having another munition sink early on for OH was bad. On the other hand it could be tried to be mp + fuel instead.
Autocannon is bad against infantry unless it gets lucky rolls against clumped squads against cover. Although that's not the role of the of it's gun. The AI comes from the MG which fires in burst and mostly it's not enough even if we account for the accuracy bonus against snipers.
lel...a 20mm autocanon isnt a AI killer..wtf.
but a 40mm shredd infantery squads in sec.
and than u see a M20 killing your ost sniper in 1sec..often from max range.
10 Jan 2018, 08:47 AM
#18
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Didn't we already go through this situation and realise that having another munition sink early on for OH was bad. On the other hand it could be tried to be mp + fuel instead.
It should be a mp+fuel instead of ammo or it could a separate vehicle one can buy.
It could even be a T1 vehicle requiring T2 research so it can come out faster
10 Jan 2018, 09:00 AM
#19
Posts: 2243
....
https://clips.twitch.tv/BoxyFamousAsteriskSuperVinlin
https://clips.twitch.tv/DullBashfulPicklesHoneyBadger
https://clips.twitch.tv/BlushingOptimisticPicklesUncleNox
...
wtf...its awefull to watch how much the 222 suck vs sniper...and the kubel isnt better...
its sad that no light axis car is a anti sniper like the m20 or other allie cars
10 Jan 2018, 09:11 AM
#20
Posts: 2066
Praise Talos! Let the 221 rise again and burn the heathen!
Kappa
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