Penal Battalions Balanced patch from Relic *Sarcasm

I will post clips and replay of my current match that I just decimated enemy with nothing but penals and guards.

It was insane how much dmg satchels did, insane to a tank

half health off a p4, dead in tracks, second satchel? GG tank

enemy acuses me of cheating

gg

dont let these boys fool ya

they just cherry picking

Sorry but thats not a balance issue but a l2p issue.

You cant expect Volks (without stgs) to outdamage a full health penal squad that sits in heavy cover at medium range, while your volks just stand in the open.

Next time consider to create more space between the volks and the penals. Or as in this situation where its 2v1, try to just charge up to the penal as soon as it had to relocate because of the incendiary nade. 2 volks would have outgunned the penals badly.

that’s the problem actually, the penal deal more than double the damage of volks at close range

And how is that relevant on the balance of Penals?

It shows that the OP doesn't know that much about the game. That , combined with the lack of facts and large amount of insult here and on Steam, shows that all of us should not take him too seriously, regardless of wether you are with or against penal nerfs.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1257050899
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1257051023
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1257050940


http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1257050979


I have won 4 games in a row now as soviet 2v2, with randoms in my team no problem

I have spammed nothing but penals and rifle guards


it is so damn good, that in my last match I still won a 49 minute game
with my teammate leaving at a 22 minute mark


So like I said, have fun cherry picking my first 2 games with soviet in a year this morning


What do you say now, naysayers?

I felt bad for the opposing team, they were calling bs on satchels

2 satchels destroy a p4

I believe a panther as well

it is insane how easy it is to win as soviets

You're playing placement games against people who aren't ranked, or around rank 2000. Everything in this game is OP is your opponent doesn't know how to counter it properly.

that’s the problem actually, the penal deal more than double the damage of volks at close range

Thats why you only oughta do that when you got 2 volks or more nearby as i said.

I think that was a bad move entirely if he is going to attack them like that he must put the second squad of volksgranadiers ( the last one) exactly behind the Penal batallion in the meanthime the first one just hold all he can.

I have no time to read here everything. But i just found this here from your own game:

https://clips.twitch.tv/CarelessVictoriousFriesGivePLZ

Which is the opposite to your first thread

Drones200 lost 4 of his last 5 soviet games. Yet OP penals and guards is all you need to win.

LOL

http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561197993050562/history

https://clips.twitch.tv/ReliableNimbleEelSmoocherZ

This is what i think of most of the balance threads, obvious l2p issue raged out in a post. :>

Enemy just didn't react to the Satchel so uhm. Yeah

Penals are so broken, that i wish last patch back, where they actually were super bad.

Kappa

I dont even dislike you Drones200 but please just realize that this thread is ridiculous. As you said you didnt play for years so please understand that you aren´t in a very good position to say whats balanced and what´s not. Penals got nerfed in DBP, they remain strong but they arent OP anymore. Plus they also act as a AI specialist unit in most builds instead of a do it all mainline infantry unit.

It´s easy to blame losses on bad balance but most of the time you just got outplayed. It´s best to realize that instead of getting mad at other people and the game.

You are a player that didnt play in years, yet you refuse to listen to active COH2 players, that´s just stubborn.

Seriously... I don't dislike drone either. But fuck these statements grinds my gears, yo...

L2P issue. Put in the fucking required hours please

Penals are utility now, satchels and anti tank guns.

I need to try my old penal spam this patch...
Penal, small AT guns GGWP

or

Penal + Rapid conscription GG WP

I miss when Penals were a alt to conscripts, where more expensive to train but cheaper to reinforce, were't AT squads, had flamethrowers that would not explode, threw bombs that could wipe Axis MG spams or squads they weren't paying heed too/Stupid MG bunker or building MG spam.

That was never the case. Conscripts were always 20 to reinforce. Old Penals cost like PG and follow the same rule of reinforce as other units. What you could do was merge but still, on 3 years till they buff them, no one used Penal based strats. Flamethrower exploding randomly was stupid, and once that was applied to all squads, there was basically no point in their favour. NEW penals with flamethrowers was OP, but mainly due to Guards been affordable/OP and T70 been a game ending unit.

You're playing placement games against people who aren't ranked, or around rank 2000. Everything in this game is OP is your opponent doesn't know how to counter it properly.

http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561197993050562/history

Not far from the truth.

THis is a poor example, even so think about what you are saying about Penals being able to go toe to toe against VOlks, professionally trained soldiers from OKW. I have tested pios vs volks both behind heavy cover and guess who still wins?

Ex convicts going up against 2 professional squads.

Since beta to the present, Penals were actually "Elite" stock units. Sorry to burst the bubble but: (copy paste from old post)

Show Spoiler

TL;DR: don't make Enemy at the Gates your source of historical facts.

The time it takes for PEnal battalion to come out is insignificant, especially when they force me to stop capping in order to deal with them. In order to beat them early I have to use all units, I think you are ignoring the complains that volks cannot win against them even at long rage.

So everything I cap early can be uncapped if he is winning every engagement and forcing my car to be at every engagement as well

0.1- I don't think they removed xp kickers so if you want to try hard, you should be looking at the enemy base at the beginning of the game in order to see if he opens with a tier or not (in case of soviets).

1- Opening without conscripts into T1 - Penals means that either he has to waste time building T1 with his first CE or he goes 2 CE which also means absolutely no initial fighting power whatsoever. Going a single Con first, delays Penals.

2- As OKW (in general as well), if you are capping in order from your most close flag to your base, you are doing it wrong. The whole point of starting with a SP is to be able to get into advantageous positions in order to ambush, deny a building or force an early retreat on enemy RE/CE.

3- I wouldn't go Kubel against either Soviets/Brits unless it's a really big map but if you do, you can use it to cap close flags and then make a push combining 3 units (Volk) against their possible 1/2.

I just streamed for 8 hours and I wone very soviet game with the exclusion of 2, my first 2 games which I was just warming up, playing soviet for the first time.

Some real trolls here, in fact I even won a 1v2 lmaoo

the haters, : )

No idea where that guy got the figure that I lost 4 games, the third game I lost I had it won, mind you I am playing 2v2 with randoms even on my team.

That game was lost with the enemy at 34 vp, misplays at the late game in dealing with their KT and just unfortunate rockets hit my ally to the face


Even if they are "noob" which they werent, its laughagable how I won with just those units against 2 players.

Believe what you want homies, Ill keep ranking wins live on stream


I streamed for 8 hours and you say I played 5 games?


Why do you spread fake news?

The only losses I had were just misplays on my part you would know if you were watching instead of talking out of your ass, I still beat the enemy back and had map control with nothing but penals.


All the answers these other people are providing are false in the face of the evidence, I DONT NEED TO BUILD NOTHING BUT PENALS AND GUARDS TO WIN


Oh and tanks n ofcourse OP mortar

I have no time to read here everything. But i just found this here from your own game:

https://clips.twitch.tv/CarelessVictoriousFriesGivePLZ

Which is the opposite to your first thread

Come on man I thought you were better then that, that was my first game of the day after playing soviet for the fist time in a year


ill clip you the straight 4 win streat I had after I remember the build order and units, damn man

https://clips.twitch.tv/DeadOriginalHamDoritosChip EZ Soviet Penal Win

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonestAbstemiousPuppyTF2John ez soviet pENAL WIN 2

https://clips.twitch.tv/DeadOriginalHamDoritosChip ez soviet penal win 3

https://clips.twitch.tv/MiniatureAggressiveTurnipDatBoi ez soviet penal win 4

https://clips.twitch.tv/SmoothOpenSpaghettiDogFace ez soviet penal win 5 IN A 1V2 I end GAME WITH 64K DMG



https://clips.twitch.tv/SplendidFrozenAsparagusRalpherZ ez penal win 6 nothing but penals and guards again, ez victory


https://clips.twitch.tv/FunnyFrailKiwiRiPepperonis ez penal win 7 nothing but penals and guards again




so 7 wins 4 losses 2 of those first 2 losses were my first game off the bat, i ltierally did not know what to build since I have not played soviet in ages, the ones you guys love to cherry pick and clip
I know when you want to believe something, you desperately cling to w.e "evidence" that conforms to your bias.
You post a clip that says nothing about penal being bad but me just taking a nade to the face because I was still warming up and playing sloppy, like how is that even relevant to what I am saying?
ANy unit even in the game should die to a rifle nade to the face but THATS ON YOU to micro manage.
The point of this thread is to show just how with basic micromanaging i.e evading nades
you win every encounter


the other 2 losses were extremely close, enemy won with 32 vp late game after rocket barrages and forgetful retreats 45 mins in made a sloppy defeat. Again though I am playing with randoms in my team, is roulette

The 4th loss my partner BendTheKnee intentionally threw the game and we actually caught that live on stream. I have half a mind of reporting him for griefing, I dominated the middle and right, his side he just literally stood back with mg's at base and never capped his points, almost intentionally.
I was then grouped with that guy 3 times in a row forcing me to quit the game before it started so I could get partnered with someone else

chat on stream could not believe the automatching in this game either lol

3 times same player, had to wait a few mins for a different partner.



Soo yeah should I keep playing and winning with that strat that doesnt work or isnt incredibly powerful?

I was destroying infantry from both german factions at any point in the game even late game their inf was worthless, coupled with my mortar, nades and tanks backing up penals and guards, they coulnt man

they have to work twice as hard

Nah but please continue

What people don't understand is how to apply first principles thinking and analysis.

On a per-unit basis, the game is granular.

That means that at any given moment, one unit is fighting one other unit, even if the engagement as a whole features several units.

You CANNOT jack up the cost of a unit and claim it's balanced if it's the kind of unit that requires two other units to defeat.

Again, in a game like Starcraft, maybe that's decent logic, where you literally attack-move blobs of your entire existing army together.

But in a tactical RTS like CoH2, where you should use units to cap, build structures, lay mines, flank, etc., units -- especially baseline infantry units -- must all be threatening to one another in different ways on a one-to-one basis.

This is, by the way, part of why the Western Fronts factions are, to this very day, power creeped compared to Eastern Front factions, with the exception of Penals, since they were the crutch given to Soviets to fight OKW effectively -- except Ostheer wasn't given such a crutch.

Just so it's clear I'm bot biased: before DBP, Volks raped Conscripts without Conscripts having ANY chance, because Volks are from WFA, despite how low Volks' damage is compared to USF and UKF infantry. Don't know if that's changed since DBP, and I don't exactly have much chance to find out, since all any Soviets ever use are Penals.

I keep saying this, and I'll repeat it: the measure of unit balance is THREAT, not cost.

Every single Ostheer baseline squad screams in terror and runs at sight of Penals, USF Riflemen, and UKF Infantry Sections, while Allied squads can and do weather a ton of punishment from Axis forces (OKW included, since Volks don't deal damage), which is really what decides the outcome of all engagements except if the Axis player manages to pull off the most hardcore flank possible or instawipe a squad with a nade or something.

Axis baseline infantry doesn't pose a THREAT to any Allied units, ever. As long as this remains the case, and as long as people keep arguing in terms of cost and other math, instead of evident, observable performance, nothing's going to be properly balanced.