Redesigning OKW

A lot of balance threads on OKW have veered in this direction so I figured it might make an interesting thread in its own right.

If Relic decided OKW needed a second overhaul and asked you personally to design it how would you do it?

You have near total freedom to change anything with the following restrictions:

• You still need to use the four base building trucks but you can change what they build and when you can build them.
  
• If you add new units you can only use models that already exist in the game and ideally only ones with OKW skins.
  
• You can redesign units but you can't rebalance them: assume the damage, received accuracy, hit points et cetera will be tuned to make whatever you design as fair as possible.

OKW in CoH2 is Brits in CoH1 they should be removed not redesigned.

Pak40 in the medical HQ building.

Medical HQ being having better survivalability against indirect fire and lower survivalability against direct fire (+ possibly an aura that applies similar effect to infantry around it)

Stuka being less damaging and not being a six precision shots in a line, instead it should cover a circle area similar to its incendanary strike. Or whatever else that makes it a blob killer instead of a support weapons killer. Also an ability to smoke cover a large area, sharing cooldown with lethal barrages.

Kubelwagen being a starting unit. Or just something else what prevents sturmpios from assaulting opponents key positions early on.

Sturmpios have too many roles for a that can you can only have two of them at once. A dedicated Schrek unit in main HQ would be better. 4 men, random models, 2 have pzschrek, two have pistols, 280MP and ?AMMO cost

Instead of redesigning the game every 2 Patches can we start to dealing with long lasting issues like:
Vet abilities
Vet bonuses
XP values/vet up speed
Pop values
OP/UP commander abilities
Commander design
Weapon upgrades/weapon profiles

And setting up a baseline and then balancing things according that baseline...
(in addition the original design of all factions seems to have been lost along the way...)

Just let it be. It will never be balanced and will never happen in the way we want it. It went wrong from the start and the start was never adjusted. Let us hope CoH3 will fair better. Until then, either enjoy this game for what it is or let it be.

I think Relic also wants to let CoH2 be what it is. It is a product that is directly related to their very hard times when THQ went down. This effected the game and them as a studio. I would want to let those times go, including the products that bear sentiment to those times if I were them. Don't forget that it is a miracle we even have CoH2 as a game and Relic as a studio after that disaster.

Pak40 in the medical HQ building.

Then what would be the point of the raketen?

Then what would be the point of the raketen?

A trade of reliability and survivalability, for camo and ability to garrison and deadly vet bonuses...

The thing that okw needs help with the most is their teching, which is nonsensical. Med/mech hq options fall off hard and the tiers themselves are only there for the sidebonuses. Then, everything revolves around t0 and t4.

The main point of this redesign is to create two unique and standalone mech/medhq tiers (rather than havung them rely on t0 units). The t0.5 upgrade is there to help bridge the cost fork to alloe players to go for both starting tiets. Like USF tiers, each okw tier gets access to one basic mmp-only tool (at/suppression). Each tier gets access to fuel options to cover complement the missing utility.


T0 - Volks, Sturms, Kubel
T0.5 upgrade unlocks volks nades & stgs
MedHq: isg, flakht (cheaper at 40 fu), pak38 (or reworked rakerenwrerfer), Obers (require 2 trucks for lmg)
MechHQ: luchs, puma, mg34, 250ht upgradeable to mortarht
flakhq: Stuka, p4, panther, jp4

Prices are intentionally left blank, but you should expect medhq to be delayed to live-version mechhq

Alternatively, given that okw lacks moetarht skins, same as above, but:
- ISG moved to t0.5
- mortarht removed

I like the look of that although I'd worry MechHQ is forced towards the Puma.

WFA are too far gone to ever not be cheesefests. Lelic made too many meme units core to the function of the faction's design. It's a tangled web of bad faction design. There really are no perfect solutions to fix these problems, and even fewer that Relic will allow the mod team to do.

Wait for AoE4/CoH3 and hope they don't mess up the back end

One approach for OKW would be to if truck had more upgrades.

So they player get a choice:

1) Set them in base where they work as regular base structures.
2) Set them up forwardly but requiring upgrades in order to work as forward bases.

One set them up allowing access to basic units and then decides the type of truck getting access to more units.

One also gets the option to invest in their durability further via durability upgrades.
(One can also give an upgrade for a timed ability that increase resources income so that they act as cashes)

This way a player get more options and developer more tools to time units better. Half the issues of OKW are the timing of units and abilities.

What would most likely fix okw..
1) start with normalization of veterancy...xp values should be adjusted so okw units vet up in a realistic amount of time

2) a complete rebalance of mainline considering their role within the faction.
Volks going back to their cannon fodder/cheap/utility unit, removal of stg, cheaper reinforce and base cost. That implies gaining back their old veterancy.
The combat role of volks will be support to early game sturm and late game sturm/obers, they don't need to have smg...they need to be cheaper.

3) a complete rebalance of okw indirect fire, that includes an aoe buff for isg for an higher cost/bigger scatter and a complete rework of stuka that turns creeping barrage into a circular barrage.
The issue isn't how units are placed within tiers...the issue is that half of those are cheesy/useless.
Isg was only good for autofire cheese, now it's only good for smoke.
Stuka wiped crews but had zero anti blob capacity.

4) actual dbp ostheer panzer 4 (stats and pricing), that will highly decrease the gap between luchs and medium

5) a tank destroyer rebalance..jadgpanzer 4 has lost any scaling potential..now it's just the most overexpensive and slow medium/premium counter.

6) a proper 120 muni double shreck package for sturmpios.
Okw needs a decent at option, most of at now is provided by unreliable raketenwerfer and a generalist mine until puma or TD. Other factions have several at measures to scare off tanks. Okw loses the moment it falls behind in resource war.

nothing will fix this except coh3

nothing will fix this except coh3

Of course it could be fix.
It just takes a competent balance team bias free and no "scope" issues.

Several patches later mainline balance is still messed up and favours the critical massing of bar/bren/ppsh blob.

Axis duality of TD is still messed up with panthers having no role at all other than overlapsing with casamate TD in doing a worse job.

Dbp may have nailed a few things right like heavy/heavy td balance...the rest has been turned to dust with a boresome blob gameplay and the smaller modes balance being non existant.
They even nerfed anti blob grandes and tools and made of the cheapest mainline the most powerful compared to any counterpart.
Mortar will still melt any hope to use 4 men squad efficiently with rng wipes, and that's since relase, but dbp had other priorities apparently...

OKW HQ truck gets 3 upgrades:

Medical, Pepair and KT unlock. The first 2 are the generic ones already featured in the other HQ trucks.

The KT unlock is the same as the Panzer Elite Panther combat group call in upgrade, you get it after all 3 HQ trucks are setup, serves as an additional tech-ing so people don't bitch that it's wayyy to cheap to get such an "OP" unit as the KT.

MG34 is buffed and becomes T0, raketen is replaced with a PaK 38/40, but seeing as Relic won't bother with a new model it's going to have to be a Pak 40, requires either additional HQ truck to unlock such as the MG34 right now.

Schwerer Panzer HQ gets an unlock upgrade for it's Flak 40 gun however, you gain the ability to manually aim it or some sort of other buff.

OKW either loses the ability to salvage entirely or the ability is only to gain ammunition, but gains access to resource caches, balances it out so you can't shorten the time to get a KT so much as suggested by AElegion.

this 1 suggestion coming from another similar thread:
This another approach to OKW aiming at retaining to original design of aggressive truck use that has been lost its strength with the change to FRP.

Changes to trucks:
No limit to number of truck
Buy Cost 100/10
Set UP cost 50/5

They set up faster and are less vulnerable during set up. Once set up the about a bit tougher then Ostheer command bunkers.

Once set up the act as reinforcement point and can built the following units:
1 truck set up access to Leig
2 truck set up access to Obers
3 truck set up access to Puma

Aim of changes:
to make aggressive placing of truck a viable option of player while still allowing him easy access to basic tools if he loses 1 truck.

Leig provide indirect fire support, Obers elite infantry, Puma supports the RW.

Trucks can then upgrade:
1) to medic for 50/35 that gives access to 251 variants (AA fuel cost lowered to 40). Once medic truck is unlocked truck HP/armor to 75% of current levels.

Medic truck can be further upgraded with FRP (100/10) increasing HP/armor to 125% of current. Has aura decreasing reinforcement time by 25% does not heal.

Aim of changes:
Make FRP viable but one has to rely on med box for heal. Upgrade add the bonus of a tougher truck.

2)Mechanized 100/55 gives access to Luch and JP.
Mechanized truck can be further upgraded (50/10) with engineers increasing HP/armor to 125% of current.

Aim of changes:
Gives OKW access to 60 range AT weapon that is affordable and mid game specialized solutions.

3) Shwerer truck requiring at least 1 truck upgraded (100/75) giving access to Stuka and PZIV 4. Shwerer truck has no gun.
Shwerer truck can be further upgraded (100/60) that unlocks the Panther and gives the truck the gun. (Gun can use be aimed and has to use a 30 munition ability to engage aircraft).

Aim of changes:
Early access to medium and support vehicles. More tools to better time Panthers.

Once any truck is upgrade medic spawn in base truck.
Aim of changes:
OKW have access to heal while medic boxs remain an option for FRP.

Building a truck unlock Faust and grenades for SP.
Setting up a truck unlock the rest of grenades.
Upgrading all 3 truck gives access to ST44.

KT requires all tech unlock and is limited to 1 per Shwerer truck.

Other option for truck:
Truck in sector can be upgraded to gives access to a timed that increases (or decrease if enemy capture it) sector income at the cost of manpower.


Changes to units:
1)Now starting unit. VG flame-grenade replaced with a sort range explosive grenade. The grenade is a primary defensive weapon with 60 damage that adds suppression (close to 60% of suppress threshold) to target hits. Primary role to stop direct assault from enemy infantries.

Vet 1 ability "aim fire" cost 10 mu increases accuracy (10%) when stationary.

ST44 upgrade locked behind 3 truck, gives access to 5 ST44 on semi auto mod decreasing long range DPS but increasing mid to close DPS.(to M1 levels?)

2) SP 5 men squad armed with MP40. Cost 280 reduced repair speed. Access to flame grenade (pop down to 6-7). Can upgrade with wire Cutters increasing repair speed losing 1 weapon.
Get the ST44 upgrade with 5 ST44 full auto weapon with squad DPS about the current level.(bit lower close?)

3) Obers can now upgrade 1+1 shreck, lmg34. The lmg34 get the suppress ability from vet 0 but does all squad suffers accuracy penalties. (suppression increases with veterancy) (HMG34 becomes doctrinal?)

Ober can upgrade with 4 infrared ST44 about the DPS a SP but get a timed ability that bypass some cover bonuses.

4)JP redesign as 60 range Stug with a cost around 300/100 and cloaked being replaced by TWP. (cloak can actually be moved to stug). Armored is lowered target size becomes even smaller.

5)Stukas fires a single incendiary rocket at time.

Suggested changes are more a direction and numbers might be off.

The direction aim it one where OKW truck become a important part of the faction. In the same time losing trucks become less punishing since the player still has access to basic tools.

USF early inf spam and Brits rip all okw!