[DBP] Tank Hunter feedback thread

Intent of the changes

Without changes the commander was destined to become powerful (too powerful in fact) due to Conscript changes.

We wanted to rework the commander and to alter its theme. The theme of the commander has changed from "Conscript PTRS hordes flooding the battlefield" to "Soviet ambushing tactics", as employed in the eastern front.

Conscript PTRS

We wanted to make the ability worth it, but we also didn't want to make it too spammable.

We find Vehicle detection and AT nade assault strong and useful for a dedicated AT unit. However, since this would end up filling the unit's UI, we had to get rid of Molotov and vanilla AT nade to create some space.

We might lower the aiming times for the first few grenades of AT nade assault, to prevent the ability from feeling like a downgrade.

Salvage Kits Mines

Salvage kit changes are straightforward.

With respect to mines, we wanted to see how the doctrine feels if we limit them to engineers only. If this becomes too restrictive, we will let more units into getting access to the light AT mines.

AT gun ambush

We added this because it's thematic for the doctrine. We gave a small boost to damage to make the ability actually worth the commander ability slot it currently occupies in other commanders.

Tank Ambush

Ambush the enemy with (immobile tanks). Basically how tank stealth should have been handled all along.

The bonuses of the ability are liable to change.

PTAB run

The ability is strong enough as it is; we want to evaluate how well it synergises with the rest of the commander. Successful use of the ability can turn around an engagement by stunning tanks.

I liked the new version of the commander, it retained the advantages of the old version with the addition of new unique abilities.

3 ptrs per squad its not bug ?

Imo at gun ambush and tank ambush is two parts of one ability and should be merged in one

Imo at gun ambush and tank ambush is two parts of one ability and should be merged in one

If this was the only doctrine with AT ambush, then yes, we would have merge the two abilities. However, as it stands, we're not sure we want to unleash camo IS-2 or camo ISU

The doctrine comes with no support from Shocks/Guards, so it needs a bit of an oomph elsewhere.

Salvage Kits problem
you see my 3 engineer unit
If their upgrade Flamethrow First
unable upgrade other


but if i upgrade Salvage kit first It able to upgrade the other





What Salvage kit upgrade correct ?

Salvage Kits problem
you see my 3 engineer unit
If their upgrade Flamethrow First
unable upgrade other


but if i upgrade Salvage kit first It able to upgrade the other





What Salvage kit upgrade correct ?

Thx. That looks like a bug; we'll try to fix this.

Tank Ambush
Green bushes look strange on winter and urban maps. Pit in combination with the bushes make the tank very easily to spot.
Any first strike bonus?

Conscript PTRS
RPG-40 are a little bit too powerful. How about increase cost?
Vehicle detection are too expensive.

Tank Ambush
Green bushes look strange on winter and urban maps. Pit in combination with the bushes make the tank very easily to spot.
Any first strike bonus?

Same first strike bonus as AT guns, though we'll remove damage bonus from tanks, because infantry.

I didn't manage to play against the doctrine. The guy I used it against failed to detect the bushes every single time. I'll try to see if that's fixable.

What kind of camouflage would you use on roads?

Same first strike bonus as AT guns

It means no bonus?

Kinda Hard to use SU85 and SU76 ambushes due to the inability to turn. May be good to give them extra bonuses compared to t34s when using the ability or let them turn with the same bonuses. (suggest penetration for more likely to damage not more likely to instagib)

I Agree the assault grenades seem too good for their cost rn. Would also help to limit spam of multiple cons rushing tanks and instantly killing them. The significant 80 muni upgrade cost and orraah increase might limit that though.

Same thought on vehicle detection, the tank hunters for brits get it free and 30 munis seems like alot for a limited duration when there are so many other drains in the doc.

Overall nice changes, lots of ways to use it. Only reason not to use this is if you don't think you can't handle infantry spam without another doc, so it will be dependent on the new maxims, new penals and or new cons

Kinda Hard to use SU85 and SU76 ambushes due to the inability to turn. May be good to give them extra bonuses compared to t34s when using the ability or let them turn with the same bonuses. (suggest penetration for more likely to damage not more likely to instagib)

I think penetration bonus is better for T-34 and T-70. SU-85 and SU-76 need something like mini-stun (1-1,5 sec)this will force germans to play less aggressively against immobilized units

It's a shame salvage can't be used to also destroy decrewed weapons. Being able to deny the enemy weapons would have been a nice bonus.

Green bushes look strange on winter and urban maps. Pit in combination with the bushes make the tank very easily to spot.
Any first strike bonus?

This. The rectangular deformation in the terrain is the biggest giveaway that there is a tank stationed there. I think if it were just the bushes instead of also being a dug in pit it would be harder to detect.

Also, as it stands, the first strike bonus is +20% accuracy, penetration, and damage.

If this was the only doctrine with AT ambush, then yes, we would have merge the two abilities. However, as it stands, we're not sure we want to unleash camo IS-2 or camo ISU

The doctrine comes with no support from Shocks/Guards, so it needs a bit of an oomph elsewhere.

Ok, maybe make it as brand new ability, which exist only in this doctrine? And for other doctrines save ambush only for AT-Guns.

I feel like the changes are great and they add much flavour but it's just a flavour.
It will be fun to use this revamped commander but not a chance to become meta. Too much rely on ambushes which are very occasional. Sure, sometimes great ambush will completly change tide of battle but you can't just leave t34 to sit in cloak since you need it to support Cons but even if, again, it's very situational commander. Definetly not a meta.

AT Gun ambush seems like a waste. It is probably one of the least used abilities for soviets, even with small bonus for the first shot. I would like to see something else instead of this.

Personally I would see something like this:

1 - Cons PTRS
2 - Salvage KIT
3 - Some passive ability which decreases production time of SU76 and SU85 (and price ike 10-15%?) or something similar to Ostheer Hull Down which would work great with SUs.
4 - PTAB run
5 - Since new models like SU-100 are out of the question, I'd see KV2 or one ability from point 3

AT Gun ambush seems like a waste. It is probably one of the least used abilities for soviets, even with small bonus for the first shot. I would like to see something else instead of this.

There's no reason to keep abilities useless. How would you modify AT ambush to make it more attractive? There's 3 other commanders have dedicate one slot to that ability.

There's no reason to keep abilities useless. How would you modify AT ambush to make it more attractive? There's 3 other commanders have dedicate one slot to that ability.

Well, I would completly get rid of it

I mean, you can patch your tire over and over but will still remain tire full of holes until you change it.

It works on rakettens because they can retreat but on ZiS, it's highly defensive ability which will work only if you'll place AT Gun in a right spot. Sure, I can imagine some epic ambush with ZiS and T34s but, like I said, it will be very rare, situational.

I would simply get rid of AT ambush for this doctrine and leave it for remaining ones with a plan to change it for something else in future.
For example, like mentioned, I would change it for something similiar to Hull Down for all doctrines.

Well, I would completly get rid of it

I mean, you can patch your tire over and over but will still remain tire full of holes until you change it.

It works on rakettens because they can retreat but on ZiS, it's highly defensive ability which will work only if you'll place AT Gun in a right spot. Sure, I can imagine some epic ambush with ZiS and T34s but, like I said, it will be very rare, situational.

I would simply get rid of AT ambush for this doctrine and leave it for remaining ones with a plan to change it for something else in future.
For example, like mentioned, I would change it for something similiar to Hull Down for all doctrines.

Maybe it needs to give zis a retreat ability to become useful for you?

Well, I would completly get rid of it

Well, the thing is: Yes, the team could probably replace the ability with some other ability. However, that would leave it in its current state and thus not used much on the other commanders that have it. Changing the other commanders would be out of scope.

OR they have the option to change the ability to something that is considered useful, and these changes would then automatically carry over to the other commanders.

So, if it is not salvageable, so be it. But it would be much better if it could be turned into something useful so that other commanders that are out of scope but still underpowered would benefit from this change.

On a related note: Do you have the option to give the commander an existing ability that other commanders have and change that? Sort of to get around the "other commanders are out of scope" issue?