OST Sdkfz 251

I wonder when this thing gets some attention in the balance patch.

The 251 is supposed to be an an achor for fledling OST infantry, a mobile base they can rally around, reinforce their tiny squads and to serve as a tool to fix OST's biggest issue - its very specialized units and defenses can fold like a house of card if you damage one element. Which is fairly easy, as they do not have FRPs.

They are now even harder pressed by buffed Conscripts, Penal hordes and the double BAR/Brens.

The base issue is that unlinke any other halftrack in the game, its actually far from resistant. Any sort of automatic fire - which Allied infantry has in the spades by mid game, as well as now widespread access to AT weapons in all factions - can drive it away, since it has neither the DPS Its armor is far below than its Soviet counterpart, which does the same thing, and has more DPS. The corse issue is that since all WFA infantry gets automatic weapons in spades, they can very easily sap its health and drive it away or even destroy it with ease.

Armore values.

Sdkfz 251 armor 9 / 4.5
DPS far/near cc 4.7 / 17

USF / SOV M5
28.5 / 20
7.5 / 17.5


It needs be taken to the same armor level as other halftrucks (i.e. mostly resistant to small arms), so that it can function in the OST's armory as a infantry/field presence buff.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Give it a frp ability in friendly territory. This frp ability is toggled on and allows for reinforcment. It puts the 251 on a brake. Requires 10 seconds of set up and pack up time. Upgrade on the 251 should cost something like 300 mp and 35 fuel.

We need less FRP in my opinion and not more. A proper 251 can, in fact make the FRP redundant,

The trouble is that the very it is supposed to counter, large infantry blobs, is the very counter to a moving 251 combined arms group itself. Simply concentrate automatic fire on the 251, and it has to pull back as the thing is squishy as hell, unlike its US and SOV counterpart for absolutely no reason.

Having the 251 leaves you one MG less, one Gren less and delayed armor. In other words, it promotes varied gameplay, more options, more tactical opportunities. Sadly as it is its just a waste of resources unless you upgrade it for a flame halftrack. The base version has to offer more if it is to work as blob counter and force allied counterplay other than just more rifleman with more bars etc.

I'm sure it has lower armor because of the flamer upgrade. If it was durable a long with that it'd be a nightmare to kill.

Could make it so that it has that high armor, but when it upgrades it loses armor in return for the flamers. Then again the tooltip would need to say that. Also it comes across as a bit weird.

Just has terrible armour value vs light arms. It’s some intense micro to keep it close but not too close.

It gains vet very quickly and its reinforcement radius becomes rather massive. Keep it in back, you'd be surprised how far forward you can reinforce from it.

Unless you upgrade it to flames. Then it loses that ability.

It needs be taken to the same armor level as other halftrucks (i.e. mostly resistant to small arms), so that it can function in the OST's armory as a infantry/field presence buff.

Also, move Sdkfz251 to tier3 as "other halftracks" which you're talking about.

Sdfkz. 251 is fine now that it gets shared veterancy. Take a look at how players like Imperial Dane handles his Halftracks as WM in a 1v1 environment.

If a Halftrack needs a buff, it is the USF M3 Halftrack that needs a buff, followed by the Sdfkz. 250.

for some reasons (i dont know which) are the most early axis cars very fragil and has so less armor even with the smallest guns you can penetrate them very fast:

- kubel
- all SDKFZ
- Puma (which cost 90 fuel lol)
- AA halftrack


compare it with:

AEC, stuart, T70, M3, UC, brits truck,etc


they are all bulletproofer than german verhicles

I would say utility would be much more beneficial, not just DPS buff. Some utility option would be minimap detection at higher veterancy, Muni-Halftrack (reduce ability CD or cost),ATG movement speed increase (because Towing is out of question at this point).

FRP sounds good, but we either need them all gone, or we need all factions to have FRP. I think ATG movement speed increase is much more beneficial for Ost.

It doesn't need DPS. I think the DPS is fine.

It merely needs to be resistent vs. rifle fire from mass blobs. Like all other halftracks, duh, which, BTW, does not have to support the most fragile infantry vs. Riflemen, Penal and Tommy blobs.

Its good if you keep it back - true, except its basically a glorified USF Ambulance truck then, at 3 times the fuel price, without healing and locked behind teching..

Flamer halftruck can be en exception, though I do not know how it would make a differnce. When you see a flamer halftruck with infantry, you run or evacuate the building because its gonna play out one way only even with current laughable wet tissue armor, but whatever, set the base versions to the same as other halftrucks, give the flamer upgrade 50% armor penalty - even though I cannot fathom why this would be needed or justified or how it would help. Neither the Quadmount on the Sov M5 gets any armor penalty and it is bulletproof AND it shreads and outranges infantry still...

The this-Tier-that-Tier arguement is entriely invalid.

Firstly, because of the type of infantry it supports. Grens need more support and earlier than Penals or Riflemen.

Secondly, because ALL factions have ATGs by that point (or even earlier), which can two-shot them.

Thirdly, ALL factions nows have access to infantry AT options that drive away even normalized Sdkz 251 with armor raised to the same value to the to 28.5 easily. Auto pen is guaranteed every shot and it ain't got much teeth, it will always loose vs AT infantry.


Penals with PTRS at 10 fuel.
SOV ATG comes at 20 fuel.
SOV ATG Granades at 25 fuel.
Guards at 2 CP
45 mm M42 ATG at 2 CP
Dushkha at 2 CP
AT Partisans at 2 CP
UKF ATG Sniper at 30 fuel
USF M5 Halftruck at 3 CP
Bazookas / PIATS
USF Captain at 60 fuel
The Sdkfz 251 can arrive at 100 fuel (90 if you rush it and attempt gameplay with Pios and MG42s, errr...)
Bofors at 110 fuel
SOV LL HT with Guards PTRS at 5 CP
SOV HT at 135 fuel

Heck as SOVs and USF you can even build or call in your OWN halftruck which wrecks the 251 AND aids your infantry.

The counters are there, loads of them and earlier and I guess players would just have to use them, instead of equipping everyone with double BARs/BRENs and except to waltz through everything.

Which is actually the point. Diversified gameplay. Making tactical options for OST which in turn could leads to reaction from Allied players instead of building a bigger, meaner blob all time, every time.

make sdkfz so tiny that it have a units size from 0.4

so its not hut by everything

for some reasons (i dont know which) are the most early axis cars very fragil and has so less armor even with the smallest guns you can penetrate them very fast:

- kubel
- all SDKFZ
- Puma (which cost 90 fuel lol)
- AA halftrack


compare it with:

AEC, stuart, T70, M3, UC, brits truck,etc


they are all bulletproofer than german verhicles

Yeah I 100% agree. It’s very annoying to bust out an “armoured” vehicle when it gets pushed away by basic infantry. Meanwhile as OST I’m forced to get an AT gun, or an extremely lucky mine which anyone with a brain knows where to sweep for.

This goes in with the whole bullshit concept that OST is forced to go tier 2/AT guns every game, meanwhile other factions are able to rush light armour that’s bulletproof.

I think performance wise its fine. Comes out of t2 and imo shouldn't serve as a damage platform unupgraded. But given that light tanks/AC's are still quite the threat the thing that scares me away from using it (as a reenforcement plattform) is the price of 30 fuel. On the other hand its an appropriate resource threshold for the flamer ht which ,as deadly as it is, should not come to early. So I agree that adding some utility to the stock version to justify its squishiness ,lackluster dps and fuel cost sounds like a good idea (it already has infantry detecion but that doesn't really contribute that much to its role imo).
FRP would be an option although I'd prefer keeping the unit specialized in direct infantry-support. Maybe an active healing-aura ability similar to the US ambulance (but at a munition cost, something like 25).

Fun Fact: OKW's 251 Half-Tracks, incluidng non-combat variants such as the searchlight and stuka, have better durability than Ostheer's 251. They are the second least-durable half-tracks in the game, behind Ostheer's 251.

The 222 is also still an "armored car" that takes damage from bullets.

The fact that Ostheer is spit upon by having "armored" vehicles that aren't really armored and get destroyed by literally everything, while Allied factions get actual armored vehicles that completely obliterate infantry in the early game... well, I won't go into a rant, but Relic are sickeningly biased for allowing this.

One thing is for sure. Aside from the flamer HT, OST Light vehicles are shit.

Basic small arms does damage, at a reliable rate. And the opponent isn't ever fully punished for not building a counter aka AT guns. A IS squad in cover pushes a .222 away. Like really. For the same price as a damn bofers.

USF? No problem equip your RE with zooks. So you still can Rush Stewart or HT.

SU? No problem. Infamous AT partisans, hoorah with cons (givin terrible pathing you get lucky) guards, oh that's right even penals has an upgrade.

Point of the story your idiot proof of OST Light vehicles if you don't get an AT gun no problem. Usually just wait for a light 5ank of our own since you have every tool to stall for it. At the same time OST is forced to go tier 2 every game for an AT gun by 7 min or their bleed is real. It's BS honestly.

Also, three panzerfausts don't finish an Allied light armored car, while spending all available munitions.

So AT guns are literally the only thing you can bring out that can survive against armored cars. Of course, an armored car can easily drive to the other side of the map and harass there, while the AT gun can't follow effectively.

All while simple, unupgraded rifle-wielding Allied infantry directly counters the 222, and various handheld AT solutions seriously threaten the 251.

Ostheer has been "medium tanks or bust" for so long, that all the waxing philosophical about opening up "new strategies" is, frankly, a farce.

Also, three panzerfausts don't finish an Allied light armored car, while spending all available munitions.

So AT guns are literally the only thing you can bring out that can survive against armored cars. Of course, an armored car can easily drive to the other side of the map and harass there, while the AT gun can't follow effectively.

All while simple, unupgraded rifle-wielding Allied infantry directly counters the 222, and various handheld AT solutions seriously threaten the 251.

Ostheer has been "medium tanks or bust" for so long, that all the waxing philosophical about opening up "new strategies" is, frankly, a farce.

player kard, kommandant!