Why DBP is destined not to work

Reducing the tenancy of an unit does reduce the bleed. Forcing opponents to retreat the unit to a safe space during combat earlier, reduces the overall damage it causes. As Mr.Smith suggested, you should play it the mod online, and you'll understand what it means. The game is not just numbers that you misinterpret.

The good thing about COH2 is about every 6 months you get a new game because they totally change all the unit's stats and accidentally buff some unit or another too much.

The bad thing about COH2 is about every 6 months you get a new game that you have to relearn.

Frankly they would have done better if they'd stuck to their core design decisions and found better ways to balance around problems. They stopped seeing the big picture. For instance, now every faction has an MG, because that was an easy solution to MG dominance and OKW blobbing. Balance by lazy handing out of abilities to make near-mirror factions. The game was more interesting when OKW didn't have MGs except in a doctrine though.

We're still pretty far from pure mirroring, but honestly I think they should do nothing other than fix the most egregious OP units with this patch, I really am not even sure all the tank changes are needed. It's really tiresome having to totally relearn all the game mechanics, when the patches generally just CHANGE things, not balance them.

The good thing about COH2 is about every 6 months you get a new game because they totally change all the unit's stats and accidentally buff some unit or another too much.

The bad thing about COH2 is about every 6 months you get a new game that you have to relearn.

Frankly they would have done better if they'd stuck to their core design decisions and found better ways to balance around problems. They stopped seeing the big picture. For instance, now every faction has an MG, because that was an easy solution to MG dominance and OKW blobbing. Balance by lazy handing out of abilities to make near-mirror factions. The game was more interesting when OKW didn't have MGs except in a doctrine though.

We're still pretty far from pure mirroring, but honestly I think they should do nothing other than fix the most egregious OP units with this patch, I really am not even sure all the tank changes are needed. It's really tiresome having to totally relearn all the game mechanics, when the patches generally just CHANGE things, not balance them.

Balance team has been explicit in that their goal is to give each faction new toys to play with. It's less about balance and more about implementing their revamp mod.

Don't like their revamp mod? Tough luck. That's the screening process.

Most of the changes have been issues since the release of the game or factions. A lot of the changes in fact are pretty already community known issues and or requested changes.

Take for example the ISG smoke barrage, or the Jagtigers 128 range HE shells/95 range.


I think all around its a better fine tune of what we have know while addressing large game issues

Off topic:
This one made me laugh,

Most of the changes have been issues since the release of the game or factions. A lot of the changes in fact are pretty already community known issues and or requested changes.

Take for example the ISG smoke barrage, or the Jagtigers 128 range HE shells/95 range.


I think all around its a better fine tune of what we have know while addressing large game issues

No they are not, there is a very big number of changes in key units, in each stage of the game.

There are profound changes in nearly every aspect of the the game (atg, artillery, tanks, infantry light vehicles...), with substantial nerf on one side and some times buffs in the other.

No they are not, there is a very big number of changes in key units.

There are profound changes in nearly every aspect of the the game (atg, artillery, tanks, infantry light vehicles), with substantial nerf on one side and some times buffs in the other.

Except not really... it's obvious you think that Axis is the nerf side and Allies are buffed but look at the sheer number of Axis buffs that people seem to glaze over

OST

- Panther has reload buff, Machine Guns buffed - Teching change theoretically makes it easier to get
- Popcap reduced for both Grens and Pak43
- StuG Machine Gun Buffed (it's something)
- Ostwind mega-buffed
-Tiger - speed buffs
- Pz4 - cheaper AND penetration buff
- Elephant - accuracy buff

OKW

- Sturmpioneers - buffed in several ways including 30% faster reinforce and over 25% build faster
- Volks actually got a received accuracy buff
- Sturmtiger - 10 second reload speed buff, Vets up faster
- ISG - Smoke (big deal), buffed garrison damage which is much needed
- PZ4 - also buffed AND cheaper
- Obers - BIG buff at the cost of munitions cost increase for upgrades
- Falls - received accuracy buff
- JP4 - breaks even I'd say - but accuracy buff makes a lot more sense then it's current OP veterancy bonuses that make it God at Vet 2
- Panther - cheaper
- Jadgtiger - Supporting Fire buff
- Raken - fixes one of the worst things with it (terrain collision), no suppression, and the stealth QoL change helps it the most.

INB4 I know that many of those units also had other changes that are nerfs but let's dispense with the myth that this patch is one giant axis nerf and allies buff

....
INB4 I know that many of those units also had other changes that are nerfs but let's dispense with the myth that this patch is one giant axis nerf and allies buff

This not about which side got more buff or nerfs but the sear number of changes.

Except not really... it's obvious you think that Axis is the nerf side and Allies are buffed but look at the sheer number of Axis buffs that people seem to glaze over

It would be allot easier for this debate if you stick what is actually written and not to what is "obvious" to you.

Except not really... it's obvious you think that Axis is the nerf side and Allies are buffed but look at the sheer number of Axis buffs that people seem to glaze over

OST

- Panther has reload buff, Machine Guns buffed - Teching change theoretically makes it easier to get
- Popcap reduced for both Grens and Pak43
- StuG Machine Gun Buffed (it's something)
- Ostwind mega-buffed
-Tiger - speed buffs
- Pz4 - cheaper AND penetration buff
- Elephant - accuracy buff

OKW

- Sturmpioneers - buffed in several ways including 30% faster reinforce and over 25% build faster
- Volks actually got a received accuracy buff
- Sturmtiger - 10 second reload speed buff, Vets up faster
- ISG - Smoke (big deal), buffed garrison damage which is much needed
- PZ4 - also buffed AND cheaper
- Obers - BIG buff at the cost of munitions cost increase for upgrades
- Falls - received accuracy buff
- JP4 - breaks even I'd say - but accuracy buff makes a lot more sense then it's current OP veterancy bonuses that make it God at Vet 2
- Panther - cheaper
- Jadgtiger - Supporting Fire buff
- Raken - fixes one of the worst things with it (terrain collision), no suppression, and the stealth QoL change helps it the most.

INB4 I know that many of those units also had other changes that are nerfs but let's dispense with the myth that this patch is one giant axis nerf and allies buff

1) YAY what a deal, 0.6 seconds reload faster for a consistent armor nerf and popcap nerf...but hey now it can hope to deal some moderate/mediocre damage on infantry if for some reason it isn't in yellow+ cover in a stage where you already have dedicated ai tools
2) it was already outdated bullshit popcap, question is why it took so long and a mediocre gren squad model cost 30 as opposed to much better is/rifle
3) Now it can decently deal damage at any range and not suck at long and be op at close (both buff AND nerf)---> only buff taken into consideration...awesome
4)AND popcap nerf + if you played the patch you would notice it is far from being a MEGA speed buff
5)yep
6)WOW nice logic...so it got nerfed in popcap and damage to the ground, the accuracy buff BARELY make up for part of the dps lost, and you can call it a buff with a straight face.
7) that's a fix, the unit would never ever reach decent veterancy and took a shock unit time treatment despite scaling as engineer unit...yes is a buff, it surely isn't the price increase + RA buff I expected to actually make sturm + volks build viable
8) AND a passive healing (most stupid retarded change ever, it defeats the purpose of passive healing) delay to vet 5, which puts you realistically to a constant bleed, a constant muni bleed, or a forced teching path, but let's cherrypick shall we ?
9) yeah too bad it got huge nerf in its potency, again hammer nerf + smokescreen (10 second faster wow!1!1!1)
10) no lol, what it needed was an aoe buff, it is nowhere as good as FBP isg
11) ok
12) yep
13) yes
14) a nerf for a buff ut would hardly benefit an already expensive thus accurate TD...meanwhile is still the most expensive unturretted AND the only unturretted with 20 rotation rate...also stealth nerf
15) no lol 15 fuel for moving accuracy, popcap, veterancy nerf...
16) soft buff to anti infantry capabilities while the at get nerfed harder than ever, I don't see the unit getting any better.
17) LUL sure just forget the new RA on a crew that has NO SHIELD and that already FRONTALLY dies to simple generalists.

17) LUL sure just forget the new RA on a crew that has NO SHIELD and that already FRONTALLY dies to simple generalists.

There were no changes to received accuracy of the raketenwerfer.

There were no changes to received accuracy of the raketenwerfer.

they "fixed" all okw team weapon stats so RA to 1 from 0.8 good luck not dying from tank (i always said the rak need a larger frontal armor )

they "fixed" all okw team weapon stats so RA to 1 from 0.8 good luck not dying from tank (i always said the rak need a larger frontal armor )

RA doesn't protect vs shells in most cases. Tanks mgs, sure.

RA doesn't protect vs shells in most cases. Tanks mgs, sure.

"most" id did not matter at all I would be happy (and still is a nerf) but im not complaining about that the frontal armor is till very small maybe it has something to do with height of the armor (some times shoot pass and hit the crew)

snip

So tl:dr buffs don't matter at all because you don't agree with the nerfs? I'm sorry, I can't help you there. If you can't agree with stuff like that Heavy TDs are overly dominant in team games or that some aspects of OKW are overly strong (because they are). I'm just pointing out that both OST and OKW are getting good things in the patch - OKW is going to be able to use builds that go beyond "spam Volks and Panthers because they have higher scaling ceiling than their counterparts". Look- easier access to Obers and to a better PZ4! Smoke for tactical advances! That's exciting! Instead you're sulking about slightly delayed Passive Healing (the jump from Vet 3 to 5 isn't that far) - nevermind the fact that free, no-micro, passive healing on mainline infantry is a luxury and think a 20 damage nerf to Jadgtiger is "nerfing it harder than ever - oh the horrors of no longer being able to 2 shot medium tanks by yourself!

So tl:dr buffs don't matter at all because you don't agree with the nerfs? I'm sorry, I can't help you there. If you can't agree with stuff like that Heavy TDs are overly dominant in team games or that some aspects of OKW are overly strong (because they are). I'm just pointing out that both OST and OKW are getting good things in the patch - OKW is going to be able to use builds that go beyond "spam Volks and Panthers because they have higher scaling ceiling than their counterparts". Look- easier access to Obers and to a better PZ4! Smoke for tactical advances! That's exciting! Instead you're sulking about slightly delayed Passive Healing (the jump from Vet 3 to 5 isn't that far) - nevermind the fact that free, no-micro, passive healing on mainline infantry is a luxury and think a 20 damage nerf to Jadgtiger is "nerfing it harder than ever - oh the horrors of no longer being able to 2 shot medium tanks by yourself!

People who play only okw don't do that becouse they like to diversify their builds. They play only this faction exactly becouse they always know what to do and there is little decision making involved once you know the meta.

And no, its not a declaration of bias as the same applies to soviets recently. That is why I stopped to play soviets that much and it was once my favourite faction.

a 20 damage nerf to Jadgtiger is "nerfing it harder than ever - oh the horrors of no longer being able to 2 shot medium tanks by yourself!

If the jagdtiger is the only thing damaging the medium tanks... otherwise the 300 damage leaves all 640 health medium tanks still requiring a further 3 hits from a pak, stug, or panther to kill.

Schrecks and fausts, dealing less than 160, may synergize still despiteaching the reduction.

If the jagdtiger is the only thing damaging the medium tanks... otherwise the 300 damage leaves all 640 health medium tanks still requiring a further 3 hits from a pak, stug, or panther to kill.

Schrecks and fausts, dealing less than 160, may synergize still despiteaching the reduction.

Yes, somewhere you'll need to come up with that extra 20 damage in addition to 2 regular 160 damage shots from other "hard AT" sources. But in team games there is going to be lots of handheld AT, snares, and deflection damage (hello ISG shots) about in addition to everything else to potentially finish off medium tanks. Important to note that this doesn't really affect advanced mediums or heavy tanks when it comes additional "160" damage shots either.

Yes it might suck when medium tanks sneak away with 20 health but that doesn't change the fact that JT and Ele will still create no-go zones for mediums or can snipe wounded mediums from far away. That aspect of their effectiveness doesn't change at all.

So tl:dr buffs don't matter at all because you don't agree with the nerfs? I'm sorry, I can't help you there. If you can't agree with stuff like that Heavy TDs are overly dominant in team games or that some aspects of OKW are overly strong (because they are). I'm just pointing out that both OST and OKW are getting good things in the patch - OKW is going to be able to use builds that go beyond "spam Volks and Panthers because they have higher scaling ceiling than their counterparts". Look- easier access to Obers and to a better PZ4! Smoke for tactical advances! That's exciting! Instead you're sulking about slightly delayed Passive Healing (the jump from Vet 3 to 5 isn't that far) - nevermind the fact that free, no-micro, passive healing on mainline infantry is a luxury and think a 20 damage nerf to Jadgtiger is "nerfing it harder than ever - oh the horrors of no longer being able to 2 shot medium tanks by yourself!

It won't get any better, sturmpios aren't particulary viable, nor they did get an RA buff, they are still poor version of panzergrens, dropping like flies whever you PERFECTLY flank any double squad.
Volks DESPITE what a lot of players (including me) advocated, still have stg, but with kubel nerf the faction will be more stg to luchs meta dependant to face terminatorbars...



1) the jump from vet 3 to vet 5 means TONS of bleed and more than 5 minutes more without healing. It was something given because of mechanized builds having no medic hq (no faction is supposed to get a complete teching..amiright usf/sov ?)

2) Of course is a luxury, like getting insane bonuses in cover and self healing vehicles.
What is NORMAL instead is having tier 0 healing regardless of techimg choices.

3) Oh no you must have made the mistake of thinking that
3.1) I care about jadgtiger, as a 1vs1 player
3.2) I care about your opinion...if you want to bullshit to the point that you are pretending they actually BUFFED heavy TD because of some AI adjustments I think there is some bias issue indeed that invalidate it.
Fun fact, I NEVER said it wasn't deserved, I said it wasn't a buff, you must be katitof smurf to think DBP is BUFFING heavy TD.

"If you can't agree with stuff like that Heavy TDs are overly dominant in team games or that some aspects of OKW are overly strong (because they are)."

The problem isn't heavy TD, nor okw..
The problem is the resource inflation in teamgames that allows all players to field 1 heavy each one without issues...
Trash arguments and heavy TD op are just excuses to push a personal agenda that could very well be replaced by a simple income fix depending on mode.
If fuel wouldn't flow like water in a river in high desity team game modes maybe we would see 1-2 heavy TD instead of 4 everytime.

If one wants to debate specific of changes or weather allied get on top or axis with patch,one can do so in any of the many threads .

This is thread is simply trying to point out that the number of changes (that affect all stages of the game are so numerous) making it too difficult to get everything right.