HMG-34 in DPP

I don't see how this justifies OKW basically getting 3 extra Volksgrenadier models along with their support support - it'd be like someone bitching about the live version Maxim now and suggesting that the crew gets buffed to Conscript levels to compensate.

Then buff the mg34 like maxim is getting a buff, because it is FACTUALLY broken if crewmen deal more dps, on top of bad everything, from suppression to deployment.

I don't understand... the crew's DPS has nothing to do with the performance of the MG-34 as a HMG/suppression platform - in that regard it's performance is the same. If you are setting up your HMG by itself and relying on the Crew's DPS to force retreats then you're doing it waaay wrong. I don't see how this justifies OKW basically getting 3 extra Volksgrenadier models along with their support support - it'd be like someone bitching about the live version Maxim now and suggesting that the crew gets buffed to Conscript levels to compensate.

Think of it another way. The HMG34 squad has the lowest DPS in the far ranges compared to any other HMG and with the patch that DPS drops even more.

I would suggest that you test the HMG34 in the Patch and see its performance in the far ranges. Then share your experience.

If a units does not do damage some damage that unit will have a difficult time gaining experience unless it used as meatshield.

Well, we can't give OKW a good suppression platform when they already have sturms, volksgrenadiers and kubels at the beginning of the game, right?

OKW tbh shouldn't be given a good HMG, just decrease the reinforce cost

Then buff the mg34 like maxim is getting a buff, because it is FACTUALLY broken if crewmen deal more dps, on top of bad everything, from suppression to deployment.

Except the the Maxim is getting a buff because it's not functioning well as a HMG (you know, serving as a suppression platform). The MG-34 doesn't have bad everything... it's just a cheaper, lower damage MG-42 (unless you also think that has bad suppression and deployment time).

Except the the Maxim is getting a buff because it's not functioning well as a HMG (you know, serving as a suppression platform). The MG-34 doesn't have bad everything... it's just a cheaper, lower damage MG-42 (unless you also think that has bad suppression and deployment time).

You can't go into a 1v1 or an all OKW team game and come out and say that to me with a straight face, I can even bet money on that.

Except the the Maxim is getting a buff because it's not functioning well as a HMG (you know, serving as a suppression platform). The MG-34 doesn't have bad everything... it's just a cheaper, lower damage MG-42 (unless you also think that has bad suppression and deployment time).

The changes in maxim are rather irrelevant to the changes HMG34. The unit simply does very very little damage at long ranges and has trouble suppressing in long ranges.

Low damage mean low XP gain.

If you read OP you will see that in my test it took 6 min of continues fire to kill a conscript squad and failed to even suppress tommies after firing for 7.5 minutes.

Pls test the unit and share your experience.

Except the the Maxim is getting a buff because it's not functioning well as a HMG (you know, serving as a suppression platform). The MG-34 doesn't have bad everything... it's just a cheaper, lower damage MG-42 (unless you also think that has bad suppression and deployment time).

Kudos to soldier for sparing me a post by answering this.

Only issue with the MG 34 is veterancy/damage. The stats that affect suppression aren't even that great.

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This does not include damage or accuracy which are the main differences between both weapons, but have 0 impact on suppression. An MG could have 0 accuracy and still suppress.

The changes in maxim are rather irrelevant to the changes HMG34. The unit simply does very very little damage at long ranges and has trouble suppressing in long ranges.

Low damage mean low XP gain.

If you read OP you will see that in my test it took 6 min of continues fire to kill a conscript squad and failed to even suppress tommies after firing for 7.5 minutes.

Pls test the unit and share your experience.

It's a 230 MP HMG that suppresses nearly as well as a MG42 - it serves it's purpose. I've played the preview patch and it works just as fine as it does now (because literally nothing has changed except for the crew). I seriously doubt the crew shooting at long-max range in the live game adds a significant amount of damage anyway so why is it's DPS suddenly an issue?. It's a 230MP HMG... it shouldn't do a lot of damage regardless because you buy it for the suppression not the damage.

Feel free to post the video of your test (or you know provide details, because firing at Tommies at max range behind green cover doesn't mean a whole lot). Frankly the whole "can't suppress Tommies for 8 minutes" sounds like extreme hyperbole because if the MG34 was that bad now we would know about it. Yes the MG-34 doesn't do a lot of damage, yes it has trouble vetting up as a result, but it doesn't need to do damage or vet up quickly to do it's job. I'm sure they could lower the Vet requirements and that would be fine but that's about it.

I have similar thinking to EtherealDragon. You don't get the mg34 because it's a GOOD HMG, you get it because it is A HMG. OKW has good mainline infantry and mechanized/vehicle options, so its team weapons are lackluster (but cheap) to compensate. The nerf could be argued to be unfortunate balance wise, but it is great precedence/consistency wise, especially since the reinforcement cost has also been standardized.

According to the stats miragefla provided, the mg34 suppresses about as well as the mg42, so any issues with the mg34's suppression are issues with all HMG's suppression.

Lackluster vet and lackluster ability to vet can also be justified by okw's infantry having good vet.

It's a 230MP HMG... it shouldn't do a lot of damage regardless because you buy it for the suppression not the damage.

So because there's a difference of less than 15 seconds mp income it's justified that it shoots rubber ? On top of being just as expensive or more in the true cost that only matter the reinforcement cost.

If dps isn't that important let's reduce other hmg dps too...

It has FACTUALLY the worst suppression in DBP.

OKW has good mainline infantry and mechanized/vehicle options

According to the stats miragefla provided, the mg34 suppresses about as well as the mg42, so any issues with the mg34's suppression are issues with all HMG's suppression.

Lackluster vet and lackluster ability to vet can also be justified by okw's infantry having good vet.

1) Hardly, it is inferior to any other mainline except conscripts and late game penals, but in early game only conscripts are inferior to it.
And that's only with 1 bar/bren, double them for final rape.
I would say that it has sturmpios, but sturmpios are far from being a decent shock unit simply because they don't scale, and even with the perfect point blank ambush/flank any double mainline would drop far more model sturm can damage.
Not saying they should get a buff, i'm saying that if infantry should be okw strong point sturm could use some RA buff with a price increase, and reduced veterancy requirements, so it can actually work as panzergrens do.

2)meh ok but limiting the viable options to mech builds, aka luchs, is lame, who knows if DBP will properly look into flak ht and make med builds viable ?

3) they can't, unless I missed okw getting free trucks and 40 starting fuel again, free mg34 OR getting caches, okw still benefit from vet 5 because of the deficiency of not being able to secure cutoffs and invest mp in resource income.

Each unit of okw is meant to take advantage of vet 5, but we all know only 20% of units can do that in time.
Parts of the reason why team weapons can't is their insanely lacklustre dps.

Kubel is getting nerfed, sturmpios builds don't seem to be more viable in DBP, I can't see why keeping the rule of shitty teamweapons if OKW is ALREADY losing a lot of its early game punch..

4) thanks to Miragefla for the stats,but mg34 almost like mg42 is total bullshit.
The difference given by ROF is huge by itself, and green/yellow cover amplify that.
Bringing up lab numbers for something influenced by internal and external factors like suppression is useless, I mean, i'm sure stats helped modders a lot back when they rebalanced maxim..

...
I seriously doubt the crew shooting at long-max range in the live game adds a significant amount of damage anyway so why is it's DPS suddenly an issue?...

Instead of doubting why don't you simply check the numbers?
At range 35 the hmg34 has a DPS 4.6
The crew has 5.4

I would also suggest that you actually test it in game the unit see how it perform and share your experience.

Can we limit the new threads Vipper can make? seriously? they are all regarding Axis units so far or fears of overbuff on allied ones...

The MG34 has 0 indented purpose to be high damage. It suppresses perfectly fine. Id take a damage nerf on the Vickers to suppress any day.

Can we limit the new threads Vipper can make? seriously? they are all regarding Axis units so far or fears of overbuff on allied ones...

The MG34 has 0 indented purpose to be high damage. It suppresses perfectly fine. Id take a damage nerf on the Vickers to suppress any day.

WELL TELL ME WHO GOT BEFFUED THIS PATCH ?

4) thanks to Miragefla for the stats,but mg34 almost like mg42 is total bullshit.
The difference given by ROF is huge by itself, and green/yellow cover amplify that.
Bringing up lab numbers for something influenced by internal and external factors like suppression is useless, I mean, i'm sure stats helped modders a lot back when they rebalanced maxim..

I tested the MG-34 a while back. Aside from killing power, their suppression is roughly the same in most cases, aka one burst. Note this is a suppression test, not a killing power test.

I tested the MG-34 a while back. Aside from killing power, their suppression is roughly the same in most cases, aka one burst. Note this is a suppression test, not a killing power test.

Still I like how MG-34 also wipes rifles squad faster (while being cheaper) because of crewman stats bug.

The MG34 and 50cal alike suffer from an issue of timing.

Vickers and MG42 don't suffer from this problem.

...And the DSHK's strength is mostly the same as the old Maxim's strength: survivable, instapins, and its narrow arc not applied when in garrisons.

The way I try to make sense of OKWs horrid team weapons cost/damage ratio is that they use volks to overcompensate for their shit teamweapons. This idea would work if other factions, primarily USF didn't break this theory. Since USF has strong infantry as well as strong team weapons.