DBP Commander Rework

This guy gets it.

Though, I'd augment that that a faction needs enough commanders to cover all desired roles. For instance, the powerhouse commander in live game is Lightning War. It's OK if OST gets a commander that also covers a more defense-oriented style too.

For Brits, Artillery would have been the obvious rework, but Brits already have good camping commanders.



Are you referring to the survey link? I can't see either Mechanized Assault or Festung Support as options in the survey. I would have also liked to choose bothof them (which would have also fixed Mechanized Infantry). Mechanized Assault might completely vanish from meta due to T3/T4 changes.

I think he used: other option and wrote it down self in the survey

I think he used: other option and wrote it down self in the survey

Yes I did. Wait did the "other options" have no bearing on anything?

I'm not sure what to do. Do i go the fun way, and really pick the commanders that are bad. Or do i go the smart way, and pick the commanders that have a lot of abilities that could use some rework bcs they are freaking op, or bad.
What are you guys doing?

As per Mr. Smith's suggestion in the main DBP thread, I voted on commanders that were just below viable. The kind of commanders that are pretty good, but could use that little extra to put them over as a top level commander. Given the fact that its only two commanders per faction and that some commanders are honestly unsalvagable, I also think this is the best way to choose.

For perspective, I chose: USF Airborne, SOV Guard Rifles, UKF Tactical Support (had some interesting abilities), OKW Luftwaffe Ground Forces, and Jaeger Infantry (couldnt think of a good one to revamp)

Why the fuck was the NKVD commander not on there? I feel like Im the only one who seriously uses it but its complete shit and mun heavy, heavily half-assed too.

Why the fuck was the NKVD commander not on there? I feel like Im the only one who seriously uses it but its complete shit and mun heavy, heavily half-assed too.

Nope, other peole use it in 1vs1, 2vs2 as well.

Why the fuck was the NKVD commander not on there? I feel like Im the only one who seriously uses it but its complete shit and mun heavy, heavily half-assed too.

How would you rebalance the existing abilities of NKVD, making it equal to meta Soviet doctrines, and without making all the other Soviet doctrines that share the same abilities OP.

Does the commander have enough stuff to click on and feel interactive enough, or is this another Tactical-Support boring logistics commander, that you only interact with every 3 minutes?

If your answer to this is make NKVD into a completely new commander, I'd rather we just renamed Terror Doctrine to NKVD and focussed on fixing that doctrine instead.

This is an existing commander revamp; not a new-and-shiny commander introduction patch.

Let's face it. The only reason anybody cares about NKVD is because of the commander name.

with NKVD doctrine u can just lower the costs of some abilities only for this doctrine or add a new ability thats really good and makes it fun to use

Nope, other peole use it in 1vs1, 2vs2 as well.

Do you see this doc in competiv tounreys or players ? Some play with them, but why ? Coz its non meta or trolling.
Frost play some game with osther defencive doc, so in you logic this doc are fine, coz few players play with it ?
In game no statistics about doc shoose, its not cards games, so all this arguments like (some players play) are not arguments in total.

Nope, other peole use it in 1vs1, 2vs2 as well.

... Really?

I agree with Barton, better work harder to make 8-12 docs, but exlusive, then try to fix waht we dont know.
Fix greyhound doc, no fix for airborne.................... fix PTRS doc, no fix for NKVD and anothers.
Rework of almost all docs will be make somthing like new game.

Yes and no.

Ofc NKVD is def. not the best doc. But i think their are worser docs out for soviets.

And as Mr.Smith already said: The patch was not going for: Rework the whole docs at all.

This is an existing commander revamp; not a new-and-shiny commander introduction patch.

So let's see how many commanders Relic allows to change.

Yes and no.

Ofc NKVD is def. not the best doc. But i think their are worser docs out for soviets.

And as Mr.Smith already said: The patch was not going for: Rework the whole docs at all.

This is an existing commander revamp; not a new-and-shiny commander introduction patch.

So let's see how many commanders Relic allows to change.

If you show me that there are worse Soviet commanders than NKVD I will cut my arm.

If you show me that there are worse Soviet commanders than NKVD I will cut my arm.

* Conscript Support Tactics
* Tank Hunter Tactics

At all NKVD has better abilites.( ofc super heavy muni drain. But all single abilities are good

And don't cut your arm!

Yes and no.

Ofc NKVD is def. not the best doc. But i think their are worser docs out for soviets.

And as Mr.Smith already said: The patch was not going for: Rework the whole docs at all.

This is an existing commander revamp; not a new-and-shiny commander introduction patch.

So let's see how many commanders Relic allows to change.

I win some games with maxims and cons vs OKW, does its mean that unit are fine ? Isnt its just show that i jump from pants to win with strat like that ?
Worse or not, its based on playstyle and builds orders, its good when you play with penals spam into t34 spam, coz you know when raketen build, and tech, you have propaganda or il-2 vs AT guns.
But what this doc wil be cost without penals ? You dont have snowball for ability and temp.

* Conscript Support Tactics
* Tank Hunter Tactics

At all NKVD has better abilites.( ofc super heavy muni drain. But all single abilities are good

And don't cut your arm!

I'd actually put tank hunter tactics as easily being the top half of soviet commanders. It sees a decent amount of use with certain high tier players. It has its role/use case and it does it decently well.

If you show me that there are worse Soviet commanders than NKVD I will cut my arm.

I don't know Hector, I think NKVD has some really good tools.

Radio Intelligence - See what opponent is building and act appropriately.

Air Recon - See enemy's MG's, AT placements, Snipers (can scout for call in arty's). Information can win games.

Fear Propaganda - Pretty cheap muni ability to force retreats(comes at 6 cp too). Drop this on an OKW med bunker when assaulting and watch as he's basically stun locked for 20 seconds.

Plane Loiter - Pretty good against Infantry, you can deny your opponent that in a big fight.

Rapid Conscription isn't worth the cost, and I admit it's a very munitions heavy commander. If you replaced rapid conscription with a T34-85 or an IS-2 it's quite funny how the "worst" commander in the game would became a very viable pick.

NKVD has been actually a nice commander since penals became ubiquitous.

It suffered from not having guards to deal with luchs rush before LV gameplay was hacked apart.

But fear propaganda and radio intelligence are excellent abilities. Knowing what your opponent is building when they build it is incredibly useful.

* Conscript Support Tactics
* Tank Hunter Tactics

At all NKVD has better abilites.( ofc super heavy muni drain. But all single abilities are good

And don't cut your arm!

NKVD doesnt fit together at all so just compare abilities

Tank Hunter Tactics are better IMO

a) those lil mines combined with normla mine serve as a cheap 40 munny demo
b) PTRS cons are a force to be recognised with
c) bombing run is very good against both tanks and infantry
d) thanks to "random" wreck values salvage is very strong in teamgames
e) yes, nades suck


Conscript Tactics.

Lets start with a fact that current vet3 cons with ppsh will beat always vet3 grens and volks if the axis squad is at least in green cover (so not in garrison), might be vet3(5) with upgrades. Cons can hoorah through any cover and still win the engangement, thanks to 3 ppsh and rediculous recieved acc buffs.

So ppsh and rapid conscription abilities are great and synergize well.

Incing barrage might be weaker but it is more relialbe becuase it targets what you want. Also costs less and come faster - great against pak walls.

Conscript repair kit is great for t34/76 and cons hordes

hit the dirt is shit.

If reverse army wasnt better I think some people would play conscript tactics because ppsh cons are currently very strong if vet properly

NKVD doesnt fit together at all so just compare abilities

Tank Hunter Tactics are better IMO

a) those lil mines combined with normla mine serve as a cheap 40 munny demo
b) PTRS cons are a force to be recognised with
c) bombing run is very good against both tanks and infantry
d) thanks to "random" wreck values salvage is very strong in teamgames
e) yes, nades suck


Conscript Tactics.

Lets start with a fact that current vet3 cons with ppsh will beat always vet3 grens and volks if the axis squad is at least in green cover (so not in garrison), might be vet3(5) with upgrades. Cons can hoorah through any cover and still win the engangement, thanks to 3 ppsh and rediculous recieved acc buffs.

So ppsh and rapid conscription abilities are great and synergize well.

Incing barrage might be weaker but it is more relialbe becuase it targets what you want. Also costs less and come faster - great against pak walls.

Conscript repair kit is great for t34/76 and cons hordes

hit the dirt is shit.

If reverse army wasnt better I think some people would play conscript tactics because ppsh cons are currently very strong if vet properly

hm when people tried to use the airstike it always missed...

One last thing: YOu saw that ppsh on cons got nerfed rigth?

But i want to stop here. Because we are going to be OFFTOPIC:

Tbh i have no idea why we are talking still.

There was an option, where you can put your Commander in it. So use it and write NKVD.