Login

russian armor

December Balance Preview

  • This thread is locked
PAGES (85)down
7 Dec 2017, 10:02 AM
#1201
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

I dont understand the Leig buff in 1.8. other than that good changes.
7 Dec 2017, 10:03 AM
#1202
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



LUL Waht i can say, ostheer in generally was most balanced faction, coz there wasnot so abuse strats like another factions have. So you whana just make ostheer more abuse ? Like OKW ? Like brits ?
Waht problem with late game ? Thay fix models for ostheer.
251 with flamer counter penals, maxims, even rifles, 221 counter m20, m3 waht he problem ? You whanna luchs in t2 ?


really?

oh..maybe ost is well balance, because not Op..but its very weak comparded to other faction.

So:
bring down other faction to the ost level...
or make ost better.

to say ost is not op and well balanced...but other faction are op and not balance... doesnt make it better....only for the OP faction---yes.

flamer HT is hardcounter? in which world do u play?
nearly every allie infantery has handheld AT or make good dmg vs the thin armor from the HT..

u need to repair it every time cause of smarl arm dmg and low HP
7 Dec 2017, 10:14 AM
#1203
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned


really?

oh..maybe ost is well balance, because not Op..but its very weak comparded to other faction.

So:
bring down other faction to the ost level...
or make ost better.

to say ost is not op and well balanced...but other faction are op and not balance... doesnt make it better....only for the OP faction---yes.

flamer HT is hardcounter? in which world do u play?
nearly every allie infantery has handheld AT or make good dmg vs the thin armor from the HT..

u need to repair it every time cause of smarl arm dmg and low HP


So you whanna make ostheer OP and ignore problems of another factions, yes ? Its logic of fanboy. Soviet are OP ? USA are OP ? or Soviet penals are OP ? or USA 2 bar rifles with nades are OP ?
How many AT allies infatry will be have in early game and why you cannot atack another targets taht dont have AT ?
You make so many demagogia.
7 Dec 2017, 10:17 AM
#1204
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

So far we have learned that the Panther is worse durability wise compared to the E8 and that the cheap and buffed Leig at 270 is justified because of muh 6 man crew Pack Howitzer at 380mp.

And these people cry all day that others are biased, give me a break.

It's not that hard, let's do math
4 ez8: 720x4=2880 hitpoints
3 panthers: 800x3=2400 hitpoints

Howie doesn't cost more because of 6 men, it costs more because is on top of arty food chain, it outrage EVERYTHING and has the best aoe/building killing potential on top of non standard barrages for utility.

Now, I know teamgamers and memers would like ez8 to get jackson pen, sherman he, panther durability and be better than anything at everything..butit already fullfill with high pen at for anything but king tiger and ai against anything.
There's no tactical thinking, you always want one more of it, and you can simply spam it as the most cost efficient all around killing machine.

"A bit better" than panzer 4 is laughable.
7 Dec 2017, 10:26 AM
#1205
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



So you whanna make ostheer OP and ignore problems of another factions, yes ? Its logic of fanboy. Soviet are OP ? USA are OP ? or Soviet penals are OP ? or USA 2 bar rifles with nades are OP ?
How many AT allies infatry will be have in early game and why you cannot atack another targets taht dont have AT ?
You make so many demagogia.


i dont know hwat you read...but i didn wrote anything like do you said here.

i said: ost is to weak compared to other faction

result: make other faction weaker...or make ost better.
7 Dec 2017, 10:26 AM
#1206
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



It doesnt, its barely faster at 4.1 t0 4.3 compare to the P4 thats 5.1 to 5.3.


Vet 0 panzer 4 reload:5.63
Vet 0 76mm reload:4.43

Vet 3 panzer 4 reload:3.94
Vet 3 76mm reload:2.21

Such fire rate make the sherman capabke of a really powerful dps output.

Now please stop spreading misinformation, this thread is for feedback.
7 Dec 2017, 10:36 AM
#1207
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned


i dont know hwat you read...but i didn wrote anything like do you said here.

i said: ost is to weak compared to other faction

result: make other faction weaker...or make ost better.


If you buff ostheer , you will be must buff soviet czo thay are like twins.
7 Dec 2017, 10:43 AM
#1208
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



If you buff ostheer , you will be must buff soviet czo thay are like twins.


what the hell are you talking? Sovjets is meta faction

- sov has 6model elite squads
- has at gun with arti modus
- cheap but effective tanks (su76/ t34) which are really spamable and good vs all targets
- very good (rocket) arti and call ins
- heavy tank call ins
- end game TD (non doc)

and is easy cheesy playable...while ost need to break both hands and legs to deal with other faction

7 Dec 2017, 10:49 AM
#1209
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned


what the hell are you talking? Sovjets is meta faction

- sov has 6model elite squads
- has at gun with arti modus
- cheap but effective tanks (su76/ t34) which are really spamable and good vs all targets
- very good (rocket) arti and call ins
- heavy tank call ins
- end game TD (non doc)

and is easy cheesy playable...while ost need to break both hands and legs to deal with other faction



How i like this storys, soviet have 6 models and what ? waht accuracy of this 6 models compared to 4 ? Maybe you whanna say that cons are cheaper then grens ?
So lets write same list about ostheer.

- have at gun with stun
- cheap TD (stug), best vet in medium tanks
- good callins and best AI unit in tiers (brumbar)
- so many AI and AT abilitys in doc
- same best combine army liek soviet have
- OP meta docs, that counter soviet meta docs.
7 Dec 2017, 10:54 AM
#1210
avatar of chipwreckt

Posts: 732

Staph changing hotkeys NotLikeThis
7 Dec 2017, 10:55 AM
#1211
avatar of Kurfürst

Posts: 144

Soviets have been already buffed. Multiple times. OST however retains the same issues for years.

Lack of effective light vehicles - the 222 is rather slow, it has little damage potential and lacks resilience even against small arms. If its supposed to be a counter for lightest vehicles but loose to most other light vehicles, at least make it fast to give a chance to maneuver and escape.

The base 251 is next to useless - its made out of wet paper (unlike all other Halftrucks), it has useless abilities, meh DPS. Its only good with the flame halftruck upgrade in small window, but apart from that, the base version has very little viability. At the very least its armor should be on par with other halftrucks, and some useful abilities wouldn't hurt either - like AP rounds, light suppression as in COH 1, or some sort of aura, boosting of infantry ability cooldown etc.

Lack of viable infantry for late game where their support weapons have much less of a window due to cover everywhere and saturation fire from rocket arty. Grens just don't cut it, they do not have the abilities and they basically loose against every other infantry while still being a heavy manpower bleed. Grens would need something to remain useful and competitive, like light suppression muni ability, ability to build sandbags instead of bunkers, or some buff when researching BF3. They could remain less wipeable for example if BF3 would give them a Squad Leader (Veteran Sergant) instead of one of the Gren models with some light armor, so at least one of the Squad members could survive the engagements and retreat. Or some sort of more elite infantry in tier IV, like a non-doctrinal version of Stormtroopers (here's an idea - basic version based on the doctrinal one with one Stg + 3 Gren Kar98s, plus an upgrade option for either a single Panzerschreck OR an LMG 43, simple Model 24 Grenade and smoke grenade. Or a combination of it.

OST infantry situation could be also vastly improved by simply freeing up Pioneers who do nothing but repairing tanks in all mid-late game. Give them an unlock of a repair station upgrade to Tier III building after researching BF3.

Now, Tier IV. The Panther is simply lackluster, meaning that the meta still remains Tier III and Tiger as at least this combination performs. Veterancy could be adjusted that the Panther receives range bonuses instead of armor, so at least OST would have a 60 range tank destroyer too. Leave the DPS as it is (adjust RoF) but with 200 damage alpha damage, and more consistent hitting of targets with a 0.65 moving accuracy like OKW Panther.
7 Dec 2017, 10:57 AM
#1212
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



what the hell are you talking? Sovjets is meta faction

- sov has 6model elite squads
- has at gun with arti modus
- cheap but effective tanks (su76/ t34) which are really spamable and good vs all targets
- very good (rocket) arti and call ins
- heavy tank call ins
- end game TD (non doc)

and is easy cheesy playable...while ost need to break both hands and legs to deal with other faction



You are totally not biased. Totally.
7 Dec 2017, 11:20 AM
#1213
avatar of aomsinzana

Posts: 284 | Subs: 1

Storm Doctrine got Tactical Movements back but ...
it have so many munitions abilities (all of them is situational yes).

In 1.8 we have 2 choice of infantry sprint;single units sprint and global one (Tactical movement also affect HMG and mortar I think)

IMO better add munition free ability.
SU got KV-1, why Osteer Storm doctrine doesn't get any call-in ability?
Any infantry, light or medium vehicles call in etc.
7 Dec 2017, 11:25 AM
#1214
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



How i like this storys, soviet have 6 models and what ? waht accuracy of this 6 models compared to 4 ? Maybe you whanna say that cons are cheaper then grens ?
So lets write same list about ostheer.

- have at gun with stun
- cheap TD (stug), best vet in medium tanks
- good callins and best AI unit in tiers (brumbar)
- so many AI and AT abilitys in doc
- same best combine army liek soviet have
- OP meta docs, that counter soviet meta docs.


if you dont know the advantage of a 6 model squad...i dont know..maybe learn basics?

- ever tried to recrew a wepoan?
- get an arty strike?
- and cons (t0) with ppsh are much stronger than grens (t1)

and so on..
7 Dec 2017, 12:39 PM
#1215
avatar of Zansibar

Posts: 158 | Subs: 2


It's not that hard, let's do math
4 ez8: 720x4=2880 hitpoints
3 panthers: 800x3=2400 hitpoints

Howie doesn't cost more because of 6 men, it costs more because is on top of arty food chain, it outrage EVERYTHING and has the best aoe/building killing potential on top of non standard barrages for utility.

Now, I know teamgamers and memers would like ez8 to get jackson pen, sherman he, panther durability and be better than anything at everything..butit already fullfill with high pen at for anything but king tiger and ai against anything.
There's no tactical thinking, you always want one more of it, and you can simply spam it as the most cost efficient all around killing machine.

"A bit better" than panzer 4 is laughable.


You keep forgetting that the great armor value of the Panther will inflate its potential HP when deflecting shots, armor and hp are tied together as durability.

It is a bit batter than a Panzer 4 at a higher price (plus being tied to a commander), still dont see your problem.

E8 has 35 more armor and 80 more HP than an OST P4, 50 more pen after the P4 buff.

All you are doing is getting upset by words like "a bit" and "slightly", which doesnt lead anywhere. Those tanks are fine as they are (P4 buff was deserved, thats why i want a slight 76mm sherman buff because its in the shadow now.)


7 Dec 2017, 12:41 PM
#1216
avatar of Zansibar

Posts: 158 | Subs: 2



Vet 0 panzer 4 reload:5.63
Vet 0 76mm reload:4.43

Vet 3 panzer 4 reload:3.94
Vet 3 76mm reload:2.21

Such fire rate make the sherman capabke of a really powerful dps output.

Now please stop spreading misinformation, this thread is for feedback.


I havent spread any missinformation, the rate of fire difference at vet 0 is not very big.

And the P4 has other bonuses from its VET, its called asymetrical balance which is what the game is based on.

The rate of fire argument after vet really has no point, all tanks get vet benefits.
7 Dec 2017, 12:54 PM
#1217
avatar of Kurfürst

Posts: 144

[code][/code]~ 2 secs reloads are absurd on any tank. Even the StuG doesn't get such with veterancy, and that's an AT only gun, not a dual purpose one as on the LL/E8 Sherman.

Having it for roughly the same fuel price as the Pz IV is what makes it even more absurd, but hey, I guess its only Axis tanks that could over perform for their cost.

Turbo firing tank guns are just bad for gameplay in general since its a massive incentive to just hoard some tanks and roam the map with them Starcraft style with next to no tactical play involved. It simply builds on the fact that the roaming horde can simply out DPS and f*ck up things faster than the opponent can even react. This applies to E8/LL Sherman and to a lesser extent, StuG / SU76 spam as the latter at least have to face their targets and cannot just do drive-by shootings.
7 Dec 2017, 13:02 PM
#1218
avatar of Zansibar

Posts: 158 | Subs: 2

[code][/code]~ 2 secs reloads are absurd on any tank. Even the StuG doesn't get such with veterancy, and that's an AT only gun, not a dual purpose one as on the LL/E8 Sherman.

Having it for roughly the same fuel price as the Pz IV is what makes it even more absurd, but hey, I guess its only Axis tanks that could over perform for their cost.

Turbo firing tank guns are just bad for gameplay in general since its a massive incentive to just hoard some tanks and roam the map with them Starcraft style with next to nade tactical play involved.


And the Ost P4 gets 30% additional armor at Vet 2 which the Sherman doesnt, you should see how much the new M4A3 76 bounces even on a vet 0 P4.

Sherman gets just more ROF, P4 gets more ROF and Armor judging only by combat relevant parameters.

Still dont see your problems.

Dont agree that fast firing guns are bad for gameplay if the gun in question is higly medicore by itself.

If it would tear through armor like a Panther it would be a problem, but it doesnt.

If it would tear through infantry like a T-34 85 or a tiger it would be a problem, but it doesnt.

If its meh at everything (which it is), i dont see it as a problem.
7 Dec 2017, 13:09 PM
#1219
avatar of Zansibar

Posts: 158 | Subs: 2

It simply builds on the fact that the roaming horde can simply out DPS and f*ck up things faster than the opponent can even react. This applies to E8/LL Sherman and to a lesser extent, StuG / SU76 spam as the latter at least have to face their targets and cannot just do drive-by shootings.


You are talking about things that never happen, i dont think a Vet 3 E8/LL Sherman blob has ever existed, and thus they cant just "out dps" everything as a horde because such hordes dont exist.

And even if it would happen the enemy places a single panther infront of them and the LL Shermans bounce like crazy because the Panther hard counters them.
7 Dec 2017, 13:23 PM
#1220
avatar of Kurfürst

Posts: 144

Right. Lend Lease meta doesn't happen. Decrew E8 meta doesn't happen.
PAGES (85)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

SHOUT IT OUT!

No ProfanityNumber of ShoutsRefresh Shout Box
Rosbone: Its going to be one of those years.
Last Wednesday, 12:39 PM
donofsandiego: rosbone coming out in the shoutbox was not on my 2024 bingo card
Last Wednesday, 06:46 AM
Hannibal: Relic lost their most professional CoH3 hater
Last Tuesday, 11:48 AM
Rosbone: However, since Relic added kill counts I cannot trash Coh3 anymore. And have subsequentially started to sprout breasts. I am slowly transitioning into a Coh3 enjoyer :blush:
Last Monday, 13:43 PM
Rosbone: Its good to see people coming back even if it is to trash Coh3 and shit talk each other. That is what men do. :snfQuinn:
Last Monday, 13:41 PM
Rosbone: @skemshead How do you know they are idiots? I mean. I know. But how do YOU know? :snfPeter:
Last Monday, 13:40 PM
PatFenis: Hilarious how late people jump on the hate wagon. bro the train left the station 2 years ago. Fuck off and let this site die in peace.
Last Monday, 10:20 AM
OKSpitfire: @aerafield :lolol:
Last Monday, 09:13 AM
skemshead: Lol, you two idiots think i am referring to brown people and the female lead in the single campaign. Nothing to do with game being utter shit.
Last Monday, 07:36 AM
skemshead: Coh3 target audience appears to be younger generation, console users and maybe asian nationalities ( hence the child like cartoon animation and colour scheme )
Last Monday, 07:34 AM
aerafield: "all these bright colours and the woman in the campaign put my straight sexuality and conservative views in danger!"
Last Monday, 03:08 AM
donofsandiego: "wehhh wehhhh, there are brown people and women in my WW2 video game, the woke mafia strikes again!!" :loco:
Last Monday, 00:58 AM
berkeley: hi, how can i dump files with essence editor ? I want to dump images similar to this repo https://github.com/aoe4world
Last Sunday, 22:47 PM
skemshead: @Rosbone Because its fucking shit. It is blatantly obvious that they changed their target audience and its not fucking mature white dudes.
Last Sunday, 21:36 PM
Rosbone: Going full guano on 'em. :luvCarrot:
Last Sunday, 12:13 PM
Rosbone: @skemshead "You cut me bro. You cut me deep." - Relic
Last Sunday, 12:11 PM
skemshead: Coh3 is boring as batshit, no soul.
Last Sunday, 10:36 AM
skemshead: Coh3 is also absolutely terrible from a spectator perspective.
Last Sunday, 10:35 AM
skemshead: There is zero chance relic can turn coh3 around the way they did with coh2.
Last Sunday, 10:32 AM
Rosbone: Hopefully we can look back and laugh in a couple years. But the Steam reviews are diving again so... :guyokay:
19 Dec 2024, 08:03 AM

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

227 users are online: 227 guests
2 posts in the last 24h
9 posts in the last week
33 posts in the last month
Registered members: 50146
Welcome our newest member, Freel887
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM