December Balance Preview

I like the ideas behind most changes. But a lot more testing is required.

• The flak emplacements could now prove to be too good for the cost
  
• I like the opel. Offers new ways to play.
  
• The hetzer seems better. Not sure if the health increase was/is needed. The main issue was that it didn't deal damage.
  

Suggestions for recon paras:
With the new changes, while they are good, the "recon part" (recon run, recon packages for rifles, m8 with good los at vet 3) of the commander seems gone. In order to give it some aspect of recon back, I'd like to suggest the following (maybe refert the vet3 change to the m8).

The lmg upgrade has always been a no brainer. I'd find it interesting to differentiate recon paras more from their airborne equivalent by getting rid of the double mg upgrade and offering something like a recon package similar to the g43 upgrade for panzerfussiliers. The upgrade would provide them with a good buff to sightrange and some accuracy and/or rate of fire bonuses to their carbines (since there is not really a replacement weapon that could be used). It could also add 1 sniper carbine to the squad. If it feels too weak there could be an ability similar to tactical movement that allows them to dish out a bit more damage temporarily. One or even both weapon slots would have to be locked to avoid double bar squads.


Questions:
I wasn't able to try out the new hit the dirt. Is it now only available to units who equipped the ppsh package?

Volkstrum is real !!!
IMO it should be replace current Volks to promote more Obers/elite infantries play in the late game (Volks become meatshield to Obers) and maybe reduce the target sigh to perfore CQC role ?

And AT paratroopers & Bars Rifleman combo !!!
Same goes to the Opel Blitz reinforce truck; (VCoH PE LUL) Half track that can reinforce, carry troops and reduce cool down abilities but I still have some question, did reduce cooldown also effect to the team weapons ?

Sherman Modifications (Replaces Offmap Barrage)
The new commander ability will help the commander offer some additional offensive options into the late-game.
Allows purchase of 76mm shermans from Tier 4 (Identical to Soviet Lend-Lease Sherman)

Bulldozer upgrade (Available to 75mm Shermans only)

Allows Sherman tanks to clear obstacles and hedges
Allows Sherman tanks to create barricades (similar to the 105mm Bulldozer Sherman)
Increases hitpoints by +80
Reduces speed and rotation by 15% and 5% respectively

Does anyone knows the price for the 76mm sherman and the bulldozer upgrade? Have to see how the +80 hitpoints counter balance the -15% speed.

This "armor parch" is marvelous! Finally KV-1 will available in several doctrines and USF get more than 1 doc with top medium tank! Ooorah!

Interesting, I guess it's just been that long since I've even bothered building the flak.

But if it can't be decrewed by infantry, why have it be decrewable at all?

The same I want to ask about mortar pit?

Minor note: the Bazooka upgraded Recon paratroopers don't get hold fire, despite camo.

Consolidation of feedback from several games

OKW
okw opel is a nice addition, but forward reinforce with OKW in this form is pretty brutal. The truck is quite tanky, so you can do a lot of pushing, eat damage and nades, and just drive off once the engagement is won to repair. 2CP allows you to blob up and camp and cutoffs very early as well. i'd suggest pushing it to 3CP and seeing how it develops from there.

MP40 volks are very average, don't see myself using them much since theyre a downgrade from stgs and cost more. probably only worthwhile as a grenade squad, might need to play with them more to see

OKW med truck is still pretty trash vs USF and probably soviets - i'd suggest trying a toggle mode (with delay and/or static requirement) for the 251 flak to allow it to reinf infantry. this would emphasize the inf-based playstyle aspect of med HQ and give the flak HT a purpose beyond being a bad luchs substitute. At the same time the blob reinforcing at cutoff wouldn't be such an issue as with the opel due to the fact that it would be firing rather than in reinforcement mode, and fuel cost / timing is later.

flak emplacement is really quite strong now. possibly too strong?

Hetzer is deceptively strong (i think maybe too strong depending on map and if okw has a balanced comp to support it- the DOT is quite nasty)

flame leig rounds don't set buildings ablaze - consider letting them do that

340MP obers are possible balance issues since now you can get a strong comp with them much more easily.


USF
*possible mortar tracking bug for USF mortar HT. might want to look into it. Either way fighting the usf mortar HT is an exercise in frustration - might want to tweak scatter and cost to match.

i don't see 76mm shermans to be very useful vs normal compositions (usf problem isnt lethality vs vehicles normally, its getting 4shotted by raks / paks eg. and the 76 offers nothing for the higher price. i'd get jacksons vs stug based AT comps- regular shermans would round that out better than 76s as well i suspect). On top of that reg shermans get dozer HP buff in this doc, and lastly the unit itself is a little flavourless (just a high ROF sherman).

i'm not sure whats the point of the jeep w/o the upgrade unless its meant to be a capping unit, but now you have to stall a long time vs okw kubel pressure before you can afford the munis
-but once it has the upgrade its quite annoying to fight, a little like a fast vickers UC. But its armor is still trash after upgrade.
I'd suggest reinstating the 155mm barrage as an ability on the dodge truck to give it purpose later on.

Greyhound could use a CP increase- its basically a very strong safety net against flak HT and other light vehicles, and its quite lethal as well vs infantry. Canister should be relooked at again as well.

Mine drop activates immediately upon touching the ground and wipes squads, so it's a very cheap (90mu) force retreat button. Probably should be altered.

I do agree with Strumming on most things he mentioned.

The mine drop should be more expensive (120 maybe).

76 sherman:

• The 76 sherman lacks a bit of identity. It is basically identical to the normal sherman but has a higher rate of fire but lacks he shells. Maybe consider making it a bit of a middle ground unit between the normal sherman and the E8. Suggestion: buff penetration (160 or something there). This way it is an attractive alternative to the normal sherman, which provides better AT at the cost of some AI. The reason why the 76 is interesting for soviets is because it's better than the t34.
  
• It could also be interesting to make it an upgrade option that allows players to upgrade a standard sherman with a better barrel (76) or bulldowzer upgrade since the commander doesn't come with muni sinks anymore.

Interesting, I guess it's just been that long since I've even bothered building the flak.

But if it can't be decrewed by infantry, why have it be decrewable at all?

Only USF out of the 3 allied factions have reliable access to indirect fire. Thus, there needs to be a fail-safe.

Consolidation of feedback from several games

OKW
okw opel is a nice addition, but forward reinforce with OKW in this form is pretty brutal. The truck is quite tanky, so you can do a lot of pushing, eat damage and nades, and just drive off once the engagement is won to repair. 2CP allows you to blob up and camp and cutoffs very early as well. i'd suggest pushing it to 3CP and seeing how it develops from there.

rgr

MP40 volks are very average, don't see myself using them much since theyre a downgrade from stgs and cost more. probably only worthwhile as a grenade squad, might need to play with them more to see

With the current squad performance, we are going to have to reduce the upgrade price. Initially the high price also accounted for a 6-th man. However that was cut out at the last minute.

OKW med truck is still pretty trash vs USF and probably soviets - i'd suggest trying a toggle mode (with delay and/or static requirement) for the 251 flak to allow it to reinf infantry. this would emphasize the inf-based playstyle aspect of med HQ and give the flak HT a purpose beyond being a bad luchs substitute. At the same time the blob reinforcing at cutoff wouldn't be such an issue as with the opel due to the fact that it would be firing rather than in reinforcement mode, and fuel cost / timing is later.

Could we possibly get away with some soft buffs instead? e.g., lowering ISG price, given its lower performance, or decreasing FlakHT setup time to halfway between Vet0 or Vet2 (or already give it vet2 setup time vanilla).

The enemy of flakHT vs the forementioned factions is the setup time.

flak emplacement is really quite strong now. possibly too strong?

It has 10 target size, which means AT guns can miss on it quite often. Feel free to suggest a price. Bump it from 250MP/10FU to 250MP/20FU?

Hetzer is deceptively strong (i think maybe too strong depending on map and if okw has a balanced comp to support it- the DOT is quite nasty)

The hetzer needs to deal a lot of damage since it's not really that durable and also because it can't flank AT guns. Maybe we have to up the price part (especially manpower). With respect to CP requirements; assuming that we aren't allowed to lock it to tech; how many CPs would you lock the Hetzer behind?

340MP obers are possible balance issues since now you can get a strong comp with them much more easily.

Feel free to suggest a price. Currently they're 340MP cost, 40MP reinforce, 80MU LMG upgrade and 60MU STG upgrade. Their main bottleneck is supposed to be munitions. If that isn't the case we should bump something else up.

USF
*possible mortar tracking bug for USF mortar HT. might want to look into it. Either way fighting the usf mortar HT is an exercise in frustration - might want to tweak scatter and cost to match.

Price dropped from 40FU to 30FU. Having seen that the mortarHT is now decent at supporting pushes with the free smoke barrage, could it be that we just have to revert the price again?

Or is this a synergy thing between M3 and MHT?

i don't see 76mm shermans to be very useful vs normal compositions (usf problem isnt lethality vs vehicles normally, its getting 4shotted by raks / paks eg. and the 76 offers nothing for the higher price. i'd get jacksons vs stug based AT comps- regular shermans would round that out better than 76s as well i suspect). On top of that reg shermans get dozer HP buff in this doc, and lastly the unit itself is a little flavourless (just a high ROF sherman).

In order to minimize risk, we are forced to reuse existing units only. 76mm sherman probably works when you back it with Katyushas.

I guess we could increase 76mm (USF only) by 80 HP and then adjust cost? That way you can have bulldozers that are cheaper but slower moving, and 76mm that are more mobile, but not that good vs infantry.

i'm not sure whats the point of the jeep w/o the upgrade unless its meant to be a capping unit, but now you have to stall a long time vs okw kubel pressure before you can afford the munis
-but once it has the upgrade its quite annoying to fight, a little like a fast vickers UC. But its armor is still trash after upgrade.
I'd suggest reinstating the 155mm barrage as an ability on the dodge truck to give it purpose later on.

The barrage was our initial plan for the jeep. It got redacted, but it looks like we might be able to add it after all (but with CP requirements ). That should give the jeep a second lease in life.

With respect to kubel, I find that the vehicle crews themselves actually deal surprisingly large amounts of damage. If you can run around the kubel, you can pop your vehicle crews out (since the jeep has no weapons, it doesnt engage in combat, and if you're not in combat, jumping out is instant). The jeep has such a good mobility that you could even try to park it on the retreat path of the kubel to trap it in.

Greyhound could use a CP increase- its basically a very strong safety net against flak HT and other light vehicles, and its quite lethal as well vs infantry. Canister should be relooked at again as well.

Our intent was to have Greyhound appear at 4CP; it's currently at 3CP due to a bug. Should we push it further?

Mine drop activates immediately upon touching the ground and wipes squads, so it's a very cheap (90mu) force retreat button. Probably should be altered.

Do you prefer a s-mine-laying-like ability, or do you prefer the detonate-on-landing variant that we have? We can also make it half-and-half so that explosions will alert the opponent that a minedrop happened somewhere around that area.

Cluster bombs currently lack a proper AoE and act like mini-stuka-dive-bombs from the live version (aka, all or nothing).

Could we possibly get away with some soft buffs instead? e.g., lowering ISG price, given its lower performance, or decreasing FlakHT setup time to halfway between Vet0 or Vet2 (or already give it vet2 setup time vanilla).



Feel free to suggest a price. Currently they're 340MP cost, 40MP reinforce, 80MU LMG upgrade and 60MU STG upgrade. Their main bottleneck is supposed to be munitions. If that isn't the case we should bump something else up.

how about obers in med truck at 360-380 mp with lmg locked until tier 4 ,should fix some problem right ?

In order to minimize risk, we are forced to reuse existing units only. 76mm sherman probably works when you back it with Katyushas.

I guess we could increase 76mm (USF only) by 80 HP and then adjust cost? That way you can have bulldozers that are cheaper but slower moving, and 76mm that are more mobile, but not that good vs infantry.

instead of hp you could give it a reload or/and pen buff and like he said, and make it an upgrade for munition sink

how about obers in med truck at 360-380 mp with lmg locked until tier 4 ,should fix some problem right ?

I think that something along those lines would be worth a try.

I just don't know how strong Obers Kar98 would be vs unvetted infantry, yet. It would also give the truck a role rather than the "ISG" truck.

What about one missing ability slot from Osteer Storm doctrine ? Did you guys have any plan to fix it right ?

What is the reasoning behind removing Withdraw & Refit from Mechanized? The new Raid has great synergy with the commander because of the tons of light vehicles, but I thought W&R was an interesting ability that was also a good fit for the doctrine... It would be a shame if it was removed from the game altogether.

Also, have you considered Combined Arms for the commander?

Edit: This change is also missing from the patchnotes. Was it a mistake or last minute?

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The Flak Truck is a good unit, but it also is just about the worst scaling unit in game. When an AT gun comes out it becomes entirely useless as the at gun has several seconds to point at it while it sets up.

You may be able to remove all the setup time and just require it to be stationary to fire with the proper amount of vet to see if that helps.

What is the reasoning behind removing Withdraw & Refit from Mechanized? The new Raid has great synergy with the commander because of the tons of light vehicles, but I thought W&R was an interesting ability that was also a good fit for the doctrine... It would be a shame if it was removed from the game altogether.

Withdraw and refit would have had an amazing synergy with the commander. However, that's probably not the synergy most people would tolerate to counter.

For instance, the USF mortarHT is annoying as hell to counter. The opponent can bite the bullet and bring forth a counter. Then, the MortarHT could simply be withdrawn and that would become completely broken.

Also, withdrawn and refit isn't an ability you can use throughout the game. It's mostly a gimmick you can choose to introduce in your buildorder either once (to sucker your opponent), or never. So, we looked for a more sustainable ability instead.

Also, have you considered Combined Arms for the commander?

Combined Blobs could also work, I guess. However, Raid probably works better as the culmination of poor-man's kubelwagen & sight range.

The Flak Truck is a good unit, but it also is just about the worst scaling unit in game. When an AT gun comes out it becomes entirely useless as the at gun has several seconds to point at it while it sets up.

You may be able to remove all the setup time and just require it to be stationary to fire with the proper amount of vet to see if that helps.

The goal for the FlakHT is to get to Vet2 before that happens because then, it sets up really fast. However, if the FlakHT doesn't get to Vet2 in time, it probably never will.

Maybe we can give that amount of setup time at Vet0, and see how it works?

I think that something along those lines would be worth a try.

I just don't know how strong Obers Kar98 would be vs unvetted infantry, yet. It would also give the truck a role rather than the "ISG" truck.

I think that'd be too strong against USF. It'd be similar to how penals function now, an expensive squad coming too early which wins in most situations. USF in perticular because their vet stat bonuses don't hit till vet 2 since they get AT nade at vet 1. Furthermore you'd have to tone down their vet further.

M4A3 Sherman
HE shell is a lot more reliable now that it doesn't hit the ground.

P-47 Rocket Loiter



Ability is much more reliable. Originally it took 4 P-47 loiters to kill 4 Panzer IVs evenly spaced 10m apart; now the ability can reliably destroy 3 P4s by the 2nd loiter.

MG34 HMG
MG34 feels much stronger with the damage buff, especially because the weapon crew no longer use Volksgrenadier Kar98ks.
However the MP cost of the MG34 doesn't seem to have increased to 250MP (still 230MP); perhaps it is a bug?

Sdkfz. 251/17 Flak HT
While reducing vet requirements is beneficial for this unit, in practice it rarely ever reaches vet 2 due to the fact that most players immediately retreat their infantry once they encounter it unless they are buying time to move up their ATG or light vehicle. Thus, it gets very little veterancy.

I would suggest removing set-up time altogether (after all, it is the only anti-infantry light vehicle to have a set-up time) and simply allow it to fire as soon as it stops moving (like it does at Vet 2)

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You make a good point about being hard to vet. If it had no setup though it would probably come too early for something with that much firepower. Potentially lock it behind medics or delay it in some other way.

A good goal then would be to make it come a bit later but be more effective throughout the game without the vet then. This way it would be less of a win now become useless later unit.

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You make a good point about being hard to vet. If it had no setup though it would probably come too early for something with that much firepower. Potentially lock it behind medics or delay it in some other way.

A good goal then would be to make it come a bit later but be more effective throughout the game without the vet then. This way it would be less of a win now become useless later unit.

Locking it behind medics is a no-go, as it got already shot down hard during WBP. As a result, FlakHT, which costs 55FU, currently has one of the longest building times in the game.

The hidden cost of rushing FlakHT is that it takes incredibly longer for the player to tech medics. Maybe a soft nerf to FlakHT arrival time is also nerfing the research time of the medic upgrade?

Alternatively, we can make it that the FlakHT setup time is reduced at Vet0, but make it cause less damage at that vet level (e.g., 20-33%). Then, the player would have to reach Vet2 to be able to enjoy the same amount of firepower as old vet2.