December Balance Preview

Implementing EFA revamp changes turned out to be an even greater hassle than originally anticipated. Hours turned into days, and we figured it would be more productive to get a first, working version out for players to try, while we hammer out UI. The same goes for British Revamp.



We'll investigate. It's possible that the penalty doesn't apply properly.



Both Relief Infantry and Rapid Conscription are possibly broken OP in DBP. Nobody cared about conscripts in live; now they're better. Relief Infantry requires too few losses to spawn ostruppen. Both also last way too long. They force the enemy player to either cede complete map control or have to face 2-3 new squads.



Ideally the officer should be there to cover basic close-combat needs. MP40 sounds like an interesting proposition. The problem, though, is that Ostruppen drop like flies out of cover, so moving aggressively won't help them.



In order to add hold fire (for camo), AT assault and detection we had to drop an equal amount of abilities. If you believe some of them are redundant, we can keep them out and re-add molotovs.



We can probably fix the downgrade aspect by giving a lower minimum aim time for AT nade assault. That way you deal equal-or-greater damage than normal nades before the tank can run out of range.

Currently, conscripts have a crappy version of cloak with detection radius equal to 10 (live version JP4). Snipers et al have a detection radius of 5.



We're open for suggestions!

Penals should probably be given a role to keep more options open for the doctrine. Currently the doctrine nudges you rather strongly to go for T2 (for camo AT guns). So, it would be nice to have a counter-point.



The ability spawns a small hull down deformation where the tank is planted. The longer the match goes, the more difficult it becomes to spot options. Bushes-in-FoW we can fix. I've only tried ambushing once vs Ulare, but that probably doesn't count, since I didn't warn him that any of this was part of the doctrine changes. Maybe he'll be more careful next time!

We can also alternatively make bushes appear at a distance further than the tank itself.

We're already planning on removing damage. It turns out that tanks deal a crapton of damage vs advancing infantry too, and that could be frustrating to play against.

The requirements for cloaking are 10 seconds out of combat, iirc. Detection radius for cloaked tanks is 20 (equal to live-version luchs).

Hull/coaxial MGs will automatically cease firing the moment the tank becomes stealthed.




There's also the scatter in-fow aspect. One of the primary reasons howitzers became obnoxious in FBP was because you could always reliably aim them at the enemy's base to score some low-effort wipes on retreating units.



The deflect damage is only on AP rounds; the tank can't fire while moving/rotating.



Guards can break hit the dirt almost instantly; so it's not as much of a double-edged sword as the conscript version. At the same time, they need to lay down for sometime before they gain the bonuses too.

The DBP is make me want to play again. Better balance and fresh concepts to test !!! Great job mod team !!!

Thanks Relic !!!

LMAO gotta love the "nerf" on the bundle nades.

I wish allies got these nerfs

LMAO gotta love the "nerf" on the bundle nades.

I wish allies got these nerfs

Why what is it? (I can't find it lol).

LMAO gotta love the "nerf" on the bundle nades.

I wish allies got these nerfs

"With the changes to Gammon Bombs, we are also adjusting the Bundle grenade to match its counterpart’s performance"

Implementing EFA revamp changes turned out to be an even greater hassle than originally anticipated. Hours turned into days, and we figured it would be more productive to get a first, working version out for players to try, while we hammer out UI. The same goes for would be nice to have a counter-point.

Does it means, that UI changes will be added in the end? I am going to update list of suggestions for DBP according to 1.4/1.5 version. Just want to know, that these has some sence

Good lordy, please remove Sprint from Snipers and Weapons teams. They should not be able to have such mobility. It was tolerable in Encirclement because that commander overall sucked, but on Jaeger infantry it is very abusable as the commander has lots of other great things going for it.

The PGren Command Squad seems way OP, against Brits in particular, being able to sprint through smoke up to LMG tommies is crazy good.

"With the changes to Gammon Bombs, we are also adjusting the Bundle grenade to match its counterpart’s performance"

Gammon bombs and Bundle Granades are not related to each other. Gammons are a gimmick at specialized semi-doctrinal brances in a faction with very strong infantry, Bundled Grenades are on T2 stock infantry in a faction that already struggles against infantry, and it struggles BAD.

If there is a more pressing needs to balance things, its Penal AT satchels, courtesy of the Creators of Universal Penal Spam. The tank wiping potential is ridiculous and is constantly abused. It does 240 damage to vehicles, which means that its a guaranteed wipe of a medium tank in 2-3 shots. Which is not that hard to pull off as most Axis tanks / vehicles are rather slow to accelerate and backpedal out of range, and if the first connects, the tank is slowed down sufficiently so the rest will connect anyway.

90 munitions two/three-click abilities shouldn't give you tank wiping ability on stock infantry, period. Penal AT Satchels are problematic due to the combination of range, too high damage dealing ability and the fact they do not need much positioning as the satchel will always penetrate because of absurd pen, regardless of hitting rear or front armor.

In contrast with the allagedly 'problematic' Bundled Grenade (of which no one complained about ever, and which in contrast is doing 1/3 the damage of the penal satchel, doesn't auto-penetrate armor, isn't heat seeking and doesn't cause engine critical), the Penal AT Satchel always penetrates, costs about the same as and the bundled grenade (or less with Vet)....

Kinda potent for something that's existence was justified by the occasional pushing of PTRS models with light vehicles that aborted their aim, is it not. And guess what, its not getting nerfs, its getting BUFFs - a its is now also heat seeking. Also it probably wouldn't hurt if the ability's activation range would be reduced by one-third, the damage against vehicles to 200 from 240 to prevent it giving you easy thank wipes with satchels (unless its a StuG or something smaller) and if the PTRS upgrade would make PTRS Penals also slower asthe same rate as Heavy Sappers, to prevent reoccuring scenes of weaponized autism chasing after tanks all the time, and last and not least, because Gammon bomb.

Oh, and while we are at it. Why is the Bundled Granade also not an auto-penetrating snare (which was btw its historical function) like the Penal PTRS Satchel? Because PTRS is getting DPS buff after DPS buff yet its somehow fair to have Super-Snare on AT Penals, its fair to have snare on AT Riflemen, but its somehow horrid to have them on Schreck Panzergrens..?

Gammon bombs and Bundle Granades are not related to each other. Gammons are a gimmick at specialized semi-doctrinal brances in a faction with very strong infantry, Bundled Grenades are on T2 stock infantry in a faction that already struggles against infantry, and it struggles BAD.

If there is a more pressing needs to balance things, its Penal AT satchels, courtesy of the Creators of Universal Penal Spam. The tank wiping potential is ridiculous and is constantly abused. It does 240 damage to vehicles, which means that its a guaranteed wipe of a medium tank in 2-3 shots. Which is not that hard to pull off as most Axis tanks / vehicles are rather slow to accelerate and backpedal out of range, and if the first connects, the tank is slowed down sufficiently so the rest will connect anyway.

90 munitions two/three-click abilities shouldn't give you tank wiping ability on stock infantry, period. Penal AT Satchels are problematic due to the combination of range, too high damage dealing ability and the fact they do not need much positioning as the satchel will always penetrate because of absurd pen, regardless of hitting rear or front armor. \

Kinda potent for something that's existence was justified by the occasional pushing of PTRS models with light vehicles that aborted their aim, is it not.

In contrast with the 'problematic' Bundled Grenade (of which no one complained about ever, and which in contrast is doing 1/3 the damage of the penal satchel, doesn't auto-penetrate armor, isn't heat seeking and doesn't cause engine critical), the Penal AT Satchel always penetrates, costs about the same as and the bundled grenade (or less with Vet)....

And guess what, its not getting nerfs, its getting BUFFs - a it is now also heat seeking.

yeah..the dmg from stachels is really to high.
it should not possible to kill alone with 2 penals squads a p4

the at on allie infantery is out of hands since the last updates. u cant drive with a tank without to get zooks or other handheld at in sec.

mostly every allie infantery can get a handheld at ...if u blobb them...no tank has chance.

I think he mean bring the Bundle grenade to the same line as new Light Gammon bomb, not the heavy one.

Of course, passive healing was meant so despute getting a weaker start, mechanized builds were viable because of passive healing out of combat.
It doesn't matter if you want to backtech or not, no faction is forced through a specific teching part (full of useless and trashy units) to unlock mere healing, which, like kurfurst said, happens to be the most expensive and also the less mobile.

That's really a wrong approach, rather than saying "here you have less cooldown/reload/x bonus, you gotta rely more on combined arms as volks are merely a filler now" it's saying "ok we can't nerf the crap out of luchs because is balanced as ai only vehicle, we can't nerf volks because btg hq is a meme, so we put a constant bleed over mechanized builds you can't do anything about it"

With proper crap halftrack buffs, an mg that isn't a meme (somwhat more expensive for sure, yet able to deal with green covered squads as it doesn't shoot rubber, BECAUSE DPS MATTERS) and decent sturm (which implies a little more buffs than simply being able to benefit from his veterancy, like Changing that poor nonsense 0.87 RA to something more fit for combat for an higher base cost) I would definetly get nerfed volks, even by removing stg upgrade and simply reducing the reinforce cost and initial price to something more fit.

I would actually be on board with those changes, especially if volks were toned down as compensation. Would make for a much better faction dynamic I think. Tech will always be messed up in this game in different ways though. OKW has to get healing through bghq, usf has to sidetech for days (and their tiers are the worst thought out unit organization ever), ost has problems with t4 being inaccessible, soviets t2 is actually unusable right now.

People saying that they don't see Panthers in 1vs1.
Just watch some casts from Imperial Dane, he has lots of them (videos and videos with Panthers, OST and OKW)...

Imperialdane himself is not very good at the game, and when he cast other people game, it happens often that they suck also at this game (proof is, he even casted my games).

Because you saw something on imperialdane stream is not a proof at all, on the other hand everyone that play (or played) 1v1 regulary know that osther T4 is a no-go tier because of its price and more cost effective tanks in T3.

We may actually see more panthers in 1V1 if this patch come live someday, which would be very interesting.

Gammon bombs and Bundle Granades are not related to each other. Gammons are a gimmick at specialized semi-doctrinal brances in a faction with very strong infantry, Bundled Grenades are on T2 stock infantry in a faction that already struggles against infantry, and it struggles BAD.

If there is a more pressing needs to balance things, its Penal AT satchels, courtesy of the Creators of Universal Penal Spam. The tank wiping potential is ridiculous and is constantly abused. It does 240 damage to vehicles, which means that its a guaranteed wipe of a medium tank in 2-3 shots. Which is not that hard to pull off as most Axis tanks / vehicles are rather slow to accelerate and backpedal out of range, and if the first connects, the tank is slowed down sufficiently so the rest will connect anyway.

90 munitions two/three-click abilities shouldn't give you tank wiping ability on stock infantry, period. Penal AT Satchels are problematic due to the combination of range, too high damage dealing ability and the fact they do not need much positioning as the satchel will always penetrate because of absurd pen, regardless of hitting rear or front armor.

In contrast with the allagedly 'problematic' Bundled Grenade (of which no one complained about ever, and which in contrast is doing 1/3 the damage of the penal satchel, doesn't auto-penetrate armor, isn't heat seeking and doesn't cause engine critical), the Penal AT Satchel always penetrates, costs about the same as and the bundled grenade (or less with Vet)....

Kinda potent for something that's existence was justified by the occasional pushing of PTRS models with light vehicles that aborted their aim, is it not. And guess what, its not getting nerfs, its getting BUFFs - a its is now also heat seeking. Also it probably wouldn't hurt if the ability's activation range would be reduced by one-third, the damage against vehicles to 200 from 240 to prevent it giving you easy thank wipes with satchels (unless its a StuG or something smaller) and if the PTRS upgrade would make PTRS Penals also slower asthe same rate as Heavy Sappers, to prevent reoccuring scenes of weaponized autism chasing after tanks all the time, and last and not least, because Gammon bomb.

Oh, and while we are at it. Why is the Bundled Granade also not an auto-penetrating snare (which was btw its historical function) like the Penal PTRS Satchel? Because PTRS is getting DPS buff after DPS buff yet its somehow fair to have Super-Snare on AT Penals, its fair to have snare on AT Riflemen, but its somehow horrid to have them on Schreck Panzergrens..?

Lmao bitching about penal satchel. It has a four second timer and a huge windup that you can just cancel by reversing out of their range, so unless you aren't paying attention you should really rarely get snared by these. Even a reversing kt can easily evade penal satchels (speaking from recent experience). It's also not a tank 'wipe' last I checked because it doesn't kill it instantly. It's a tank wipe as much as the grenadier stun nade is an infantry wipe.

That being said, it's my opinion that penals really had no business getting access to at tools in the first place (back when guards were still good in live anyway), because there were still other solutions, and live penals are still pretty op for various reasons, but honestly complaining about at satchels screams l2p issue.

Imperialdane himself is not very good at the game, and when he cast other people game, it happens often that they suck also at this game (proof is, he even casted my games).

Because you saw something on imperialdane stream is not a proof at all, on the other hand everyone that play (or played) 1v1 regulary know that osther T4 is a no-go tier because of its price and more cost effective tanks in T3.

We may actually see more panthers in 1V1 if this patch come live someday, which would be very interesting.

Dane is in the Top 100 (if not Top 50) and almost all the games he is casting are with players in the Top 100.
But whatever...

The Panther needs a very small tweak and I hope the balance team gets it right. But it's not that bad as people say it is.

Good lordy, please remove Sprint from Snipers and Weapons teams. They should not be able to have such mobility. It was tolerable in Encirclement because that commander overall sucked, but on Jaeger infantry it is very abusable as the commander has lots of other great things going for it.

The PGren Command Squad seems way OP, against Brits in particular, being able to sprint through smoke up to LMG tommies is crazy good.

I can't wait for that Sprinting Sniper reminding me USF best counter to it is the overpriced M20.

Dane is in the Top 100 (if not Top 50)

there are barely more than 100 people playing coh2 1v1 regullary (at least one time per week), so yeah imperialdane (as anyone who would play coh2 everyday) is in top 100 1v1.
It still doesn't proove that panther are often seen in this game mode

but whatever...

So any word on "Map Magic"? At this point, the map pool is almost a bigger problem than balance. Every mode (1v1, 2v2, etc.) has pretty much required vetos, resulting in some very stale map selection.

Even if its just the removal of certain maps (why are there TWO Moscow outskirts?), it would really help the game.

Call in officer has Faust - that is to much

there are barely more than 100 people playing coh2 1v1 regullary (at least one time per week), so yeah imperialdane (as anyone who would play coh2 everyday) is in top 100 1v1.
It still doesn't proove that panther are often seen in this game mode

but whatever...

Are you sure about that?