Faction design

Since the next patch has been postpone it is a good opportunity to have a look at faction design.

The reason why I suggest this is because it seem to me that many changes introduced in the latest patch try to balance units giving more weight to balance units then overall balance design.

A good place for one to start would be to rate certain elements of each faction from 1 to 5 so that we can have a better picture of the current situation and then decide where the balance should be moved to.

I will start with a few examples feel, free to rated them or suggest to add more:

Doctrinal units (based on cost efficiency):
1) Mainline infantry
2) Engineer type units
3) Support weapons
4) Light vehicles
5) Light tanks
6) medium tanks
7) TDs
8) Premium tanks/heavy tanks

call-in units:
9) Infantry
10)Light vehicles
11)Medium tanks
12)Heavy tanks
13)On map artillery

14) Off map abilities.

I'm sorry but I'll just say what I think about the OKW and UKF Army design here.

First of all, I like the OKW because to me at least they're a bigger and better Ostheer.

I prefer Volks over Grens but they're really lacking an MG, especially in a 1v1 or all OKW team games. See I'm an MG guy if you haven't noticed from my Avatar so I like getting MGs and locking down areas, but given the current situation I need to rely on my Wehrmacht teammates for MG support as well as resource caches in the late game because as bigger and better their tanks might be they require more resources. So I believe that locking the raketen under T1 instead of the MG34 is a better choice given the current meta of superior Allied infantry spam and rush, especially early game. As far as the caches go, OKW gets the same resources now they are seriously hampered in all OKW team games or they again have to rely on their Wehr teammates which is again complete bullshit.

As far as the Brits go, I am glad that compared to their CoH counterparts they get a mobile Vickers MG and 6 pounder but they are still hampered by the static mortar pit. An Army needs to remain mobile in order to survive and thrive and at the moment many people don't enjoy the static play of the British with their emplacements and many people such as myself choose to bypass them completely, so Planet Smasher's Artillery Pit is one of the best solutions to the problem if you ask me.

Again this is just my opinion, feel free to disagree with me but please, just tell me why.

And once again, sorry for not following your post format.

2 words: global upgrades

For more info, see Inverse's thread on faction design from 2012.

Here are my thoughts how to more properly balance the game out.

1. Mainline Infantry
I my eyes, all Mainline Infantry should be balanced with in each other (excluding doctrinal assets).
-Conscripts are noted to be the weakest of all. While the vs grens, they win at close range and lose at far, there still a window for clear victory. However when facing Volks it can be a bit messy. The main problem is the STG Upgrade. It just adds way to much fire power. I would like to see a MP40 upgrade instead to reduce long range while increasing close range. I could be just two to five MP40s.
-Volks: While on them I would like to see a small price increase based on the preformance from 250 to 255 or 260.
-Grens. Their Performance is hampered to the fact they have to be teched. This reduces initial field presence are additionally reduced the factions starting resources. What I would do is swap the MG42 and Grenadier. Additionally, I would swap the G43 and LMG42 to prevent the mindless a moving around and allow more mobility.
Show Spoiler
-Riflemen currently are slightly over-performing. I would say change the target size from .97 to 1 but then reduce the cost to 275 or 270 from 280 to prevent the extra bleed.
-Infantry section might as well be called better Grens. They need a bit of a rework. I would say change their target size from .8 to .9, change their moving accuracy from .25 to .5, and lastly adjust their cost to 260-270.
-Penals are a bit too strong for their timing so here is my simple suggestion: Why not make them in performance (excluding upgrades and abilities) equal to a riflemen? A five man squad with the same firepower.

2. Engineer types
-Equalized repairs but strumpioneers still need to be better because of thier price (maybe solely through the hazardous removal upgrade).
-USF Vehicle crews need to have weaker repairs because they are free repairs so Rear Echelons have a bit more utility.
-Rear Echelons/pioneers could use price decrease from 200 to 180 however Rear Echelons need to then pick up their own variant of the BAR. (Maybe no fire while moving)
-Royal Engineers. Move to T0 but reduced their Target size to match their role.
-Sturmpioneers should not be the starting unit.

3. Support weapons
-Maxim needs a slight suppression increase.
-I would add an T0 upgrade to OKW to allow access to the Raketenwerfer, MG34, and to the SWS Halftracks for ~100 manpower 30 Fuel. This would allow more accessible MG34s and allow light trucks to have a more of an impact. Additionally, this would reduce the effectiveness of FRP by delaying the teching.
-USF Mortar with its reduced range I would like to see faster setup and tear down to allow it to become more mobile.

4. Light vehicles and light Tanks
The Problem with these units is that snare range is too far. A simple range reduction. Additionally to prevent the M3 plus flamer I would add the flamer to require AT grenade (which I would include the Molotov as well. Making it a three in one.)

For now, these will be my suggestions. I do not feel like typing anything else for now.

Would be possible for you guys to include a numerical representation from 1-5 (low to high) of the cost efficiency for each category.

For instance:
Soviet 1
Wer 2
OKW 3
UKF 4
USF 5

Would be possible for you guys to include a numerical representation from 1-5 (low to high) of the cost efficiency for each category.

For instance:
Soviet 1
Wer 2
OKW 3
UKF 4
USF 5

1 is my prefers and goes down by less preference.

Main line Infantry
1. 5-Man Infantry Section
2. Penal
3. Ostruppen
4. 4 Man Infantry Section
5. Riflemen
6. Volks
7. Gren
8. Conscripts
9. Assault Grens

Grens and Conscripts are a good baseline to look at balance. The only thing I would say to balance Cons is to merge Molotov and AT Grenades. The other items need to be brought around their level

Engines
1. Sturmpios
2. Royal Engies
3. Rear Echelon
4. Combat Engies
5. Pioneers
6. Salvage Royal Engies (Too expensive, Too late.)
7. Assault Engies

HMGs
1. M2B
2. Dshka
3. Vickers
4. MG 42
5. MG 34
6. Maxium

AT guns (mobile)
1. 6 PDR
2. Pak 40
3. M1 AT Gun
4. Raketenwerfer
5. Zis
6. M42 (Its not actually that bad for its price)

All AT guns has an area they excels in. It is hard to judge these all together

Mobile Indirect fire teams.
1. PakHowie
2. 120mm Mortar
3. GrW 34
4. Lieg
5. USF Mortar
6. Soviet Mortar

Early Light Vehicles
1. WC 51
2. Kubel
3. M3 Scout
4. Universal Carrier (Too Clunky)

Light Vehicles and Tanks
1. Puma (Effective even against Medium tanks)
2. Stuart
3. M15 AA Halftrack
4. 251 AA Halftrack
5. T70
6. P2
7. 222
8. M16 AA Halftrack
9. AEC
10. Greyhound (Too weak and bad Doc)

Main Battle Tanks (640 HP)
1. Sherman
2. Cromwell
3. OKW P4
4. M4C
5. Ost P4
6. T35/76

2 words: global upgrades

For more info, see Inverse's thread on faction design from 2012.

Link please

Conscripts + Penalties - sucks design.
There should be only one (main) infantry unit at the start. Or conscripts - which can be upgraded to regular infantry at the 3rd level of the Vets. Or would improve with unlocks
Or just regular infantry at the start.

Thats fucking cute lets provide another opinion on that. Taking into account cost, effectivness, maps, whether its a doc or non doc unit.

1 is my prefers and goes down by less preference.

Main line Infantry
1. 5-Man Infantry Section
2. Penal
3. Ostruppen
4. 4 Man Infantry Section
5. Riflemen
6. Volks
7. Gren
8. Conscripts
9. Assault Grens

Grens and Conscripts are a good baseline to look at balance. The only thing I would say to balance Cons is to merge Molotov and AT Grenades. The other items need to be brought around their level

Main line Infantry by long range performance

1. 5-Man Infantry Section
2. Penal
3. Gren
4. 4 Man Infantry Section
5. Riflemen
6. Volks
7. pgrens
8. Ostruppen
9. Conscripts
10. Assault Grens
11. ppsh cons

Main line infantry by short range performance

1. pgrens
2. Assault Grens
3. ppsh cons
4. Volks
5. Riflemen
6. Penal
7. Gren
8. Ostruppen
9. 5-Man Infantry Section
10. 4 Man Infantry Section
11. Conscripts

Engines
1. Sturmpios
2. Royal Engies
3. Rear Echelon
4. Combat Engies
5. Pioneers
6. Salvage Royal Engies (Too expensive, Too late.)
7. Assault Engies

1. Sturmpios
2. Pioneers
3. Royal Engies
4. Assault Engies
5. Rear Echelon
6. Salvage Royal Engies (Too expensive, Too late.)
7. Combat Engies

HMGs
1. M2B
2. Dshka
3. Vickers
4. MG 42
5. MG 34
6. Maxium

1. Dshka
2. MG 42
3. Vickers
4. MG 34
5. M2B
6. Maxium

AT guns (mobile)
1. 6 PDR
2. Pak 40
3. M1 AT Gun
4. Raketenwerfer
5. Zis
6. M42 (Its not actually that bad for its price)

All AT guns has an area they excels in. It is hard to judge these all together

1. Pak 40
2. Zis
3. M1 AT Gun
4. 6 PDR
5. Raketenwerfer
6. M42 (Its not actually that bad for its price)

Mobile Indirect fire teams.
1. PakHowie
2. 120mm Mortar
3. GrW 34
4. Lieg
5. USF Mortar
6. Soviet Mortar

1. GrW 34
2. Leig
3. USF Mortar
4. 120mm Mortar
5. PakHowie
6. Soviet Mortar

Early Light Vehicles
1. WC 51
2. Kubel
3. M3 Scout
4. Universal Carrier (Too Clunky)

1. M3 Scout
2. Universal Carrier
3. WC 51
4. Kubel

Light Vehicles and Tanks
1. Puma (Effective even against Medium tanks)
2. Stuart
3. M15 AA Halftrack
4. 251 AA Halftrack
5. T70
6. P2
7. 222
8. M16 AA Halftrack
9. AEC
10. Greyhound (Too weak and bad Doc)

Thats ultra fucking cute

Light vehicles by AT capabilities

1. Puma (Effective even against Medium tanks)
2. AEC
3. Stuart
4. T70
5. 222
6. P2
7. M15 AA Halftrack
8. 251 AA Halftrack
9. M16 AA Halftrack
10. Greyhound (Too weak and bad Doc)

Light vehicles by AI capabilities

1. P2
2. 251 AA Halftrack
3. M15 AA Halftrack
4. 222
5. M16 AA Halftrack
6. T70
7. Greyhound (Too weak and bad Doc)
8. Stuart
9. Puma (Effective even against Medium tanks)
10. AEC

Main Battle Tanks (640 HP)
1. Sherman
2. Cromwell
3. OKW P4
4. M4C
5. Ost P4
6. T35/76

1. T35/76
2. OKW P4
3. M4C
4. Cromwell
5. Ost P4
6. Sherman

Medium tanks 800hp

1. Command panther
2. Comet
3. Panther
4. Pershing
5. t34/85
6. KV1

TDs

1. Jagdtiger
2. Elephant
3. Sherman Firefly
4. Jackson
5. ISU152
6. jp4
7. su85
8. stug

Ya'll should put in the M10 at "4" and then again at "8" for when you've had a couple beers.

Link please

https://www.coh2.org/topic/12973/strategy-in-company-of-heroes-2

https://www.coh2.org/topic/12973/strategy-in-company-of-heroes-2

Thanks!

https://www.coh2.org/topic/12973/strategy-in-company-of-heroes-2

Great read, many thanks.