Why does capturing territory do absolutely nothing?

In Dawn of War II, if you capture the entire map, you deny your opponent resources, and they can't even build INFANTRY, let alone armor.

In CoH2, EVERY SINGLE MATCH is just the opponent sitting back, losing the ENTIRE map, then building two or three tanks and winning without any actual tactics and without being punished for failing miserably at holding anything early on.

Why is this?

Why is a player who loses both fuel points, both munitions points, and the vast majority of control points allowed to build any kind of threatening units at all, let alone several of them?

Why does capturing said resource and control points not actually accomplish anything in terms of harming the opposing player?

What is even the point of capturing territory, when it has absolutely no effect on anything?

The announcer shouts "The enemy has cut off our supply line!" in an exaggerated tone, as if there's real danger in being cut off, but in reality, there isn't...

And was it always this way? Or did CoH2 start out like DoWII?

Perhaps you should provide a replay, capturing points does deny resources...

It helps to look into how cut-offs work on certain maps - I know there have been a couple of times where I've been caught off guard because I didn't realize that my opponent wasn't cut-off due to a VP acting as a connector.

Have you actually watched replays where that happens? Compare the (+XX) number after your fuel icon to see what the fuel income rate for both players is over the course of the match - it's probably closer than you think it is unless the match is truly a stomp like you're making it out to be.

I'm not talking about subtle differences in income though.

I mean, why is it possible to even build ONE tank at all if you lose all resource points on the map in the early game?

Why is it possible to do anything at all when you completely fail to hold any territory?

It just seems to make it so the only thing that matters in the game is micro. The macro strategy just doesn't play into whether you win or lose.

Without territory, or with territory cutoff, you are left with 5 fuel per minute and no munitions at all. The first one means that you can build one medium per over 20 minutes of a match, the second that you can't upgrade your infantry, which makes a huge difference. Not to mention the fact that if you are tripple capped on vp, you are not even going to last 10 minutes.

On the other hand, the player with smaller standing army pays less upkeep and thus has more manpower to spend. This is an intentional comeback mechanic. It means, that you cant just sit back once you get an advantage, but you have to actively press the advantage for the win - for example by gaining vet, teching, mining and so on.

I cant tell if this is legit or trolling

I cant tell if this is legit or trolling

Probably legit, I really want to explain the core coh mechanics to OP and snowball effect but on the other hand I´m too tired to write something solid

It was even stronger in CoH since you could just pump out a super tank with just man power, but you had to save a lot of man power for it.

I find it harder to come back in CoH 2 than in CoH so I really have no idea what you're talking about.

Nobody complained about it in CoH at least, I didn't.

@OP, maybe they are stockpiling fuel?

@OP, maybe they are stockpiling fuel?

I heard they made a new deal with Syria for bringing in fuel cans.

In Dawn of War II, if you capture the entire map, you deny your opponent resources, and they can't even build INFANTRY, let alone armor.

In CoH2, EVERY SINGLE MATCH is just the opponent sitting back, losing the ENTIRE map, then building two or three tanks and winning without any actual tactics and without being punished for failing miserably at holding anything early on.

Why is this?

Why is a player who loses both fuel points, both munitions points, and the vast majority of control points allowed to build any kind of threatening units at all, let alone several of them?

Why does capturing said resource and control points not actually accomplish anything in terms of harming the opposing player?

What is even the point of capturing territory, when it has absolutely no effect on anything?

The announcer shouts "The enemy has cut off our supply line!" in an exaggerated tone, as if there's real danger in being cut off, but in reality, there isn't...

And was it always this way? Or did CoH2 start out like DoWII?

Like others said, it's a comeback mechanic for the losing players to give them a chance. That and the manpower income is very high when said losing side barely has anything.

As for the sudden appearance of tanks, I have a few theories since you haven't presented a replay:
1. Player was hiding his tanks. (Very unlikely)
2. Had an ally that provided fuel for said player.*
3. Players was saving his fuel for something big.**

*Some commanders have the ability to call in fuel drops for anyone to use, but since you seem to have mentioned that the losing player(s) was supposedly pushed back such abilities would have a role in allowing players to obtain fuel.

**This is the most reasonable one since my theory for your match was that your opponent was saving up for a heavy tank. However, because you were winning he needed an immediate response to counter your forces. Rather than spend precious time getting a heavy tank, he chose to make multiple mediums in quick response.

While I could make more theories, it's better if you post a replay. Saves us plenty of time and guys can have a look at what happened.

Guys, he probably is just salty because he lost a match to a comeback.
No reason to argue about that.

If you play solid and your enemy has zero territory, you will win, if not, you threw it because you started doing dumb crap when you thought that the game could not be lost anymore.

If I was a mod still, I would close this topic.

This site should have an agony aunt thread for this sort of stuff

As for the sudden appearance of tanks, I have a few theories since you haven't presented a replay:
1. Player was hiding his tanks. (Very unlikely)
2. Had an ally that provided fuel for said player.*
3. Players was saving his fuel for something big.**

Well, it's actually the first point. I only play 1vs1. And people literally hide them until there are two or three, all while losing the entire map.

Which is why this doesn't make sense to me.

The opponent basically just loses the entire map to my overwhelming infantry and tactics, and yet still produces two huge tanks that steamroll everything. With a fuel point in the enemy's hands, that number increases to three or even FOUR huge tanks.

This has nothing to do with winning or losing, nor with relaxing and expecting the match to be won.

It just doesn't make any sense to me why players aren't punished for losing the entire map.

What incentive is there to capture territory at all like this?
Why should I expect ANY tanks if I dominate resource points?

I specifically started experimenting and playing full defense, letting my opponent have resources on his half of the map and... there's no difference.

They still bring out tanks, and I still either demolish them or get demolished by them depending on the map and faction in question. But the outcome is the same, regardless of whether the opponent managed to maintain a fair amount of point control or lost the entire map.

Seems to go against the core mechanics of point control. And I'm not even talking about non-fuel and non-munitions point control. That doesn't seem to have any impact whatsoever. People literally leave non-fuel/non-munitions points uncapped for half the game in some Propagandacasts I've seen...

that doesn't makesense to anyone ,let share the replay to us atleast

Upload the replay so we can actually see what you are talking about because in my experience if you are dominating you opponent and actually being aggressive, there is little they can do (unless they are outplaying you, in which case you are probably not dominating them).

Guys, he probably is just salty because he lost a match to a comeback.
No reason to argue about that.

If you play solid and your enemy has zero territory, you will win, if not, you threw it because you started doing dumb crap when you thought that the game could not be lost anymore.

If I was a mod still, I would close this topic.

+1

This site should have an agony aunt thread for this sort of stuff

It would be nice :/

Well, it's actually the first point. I only play 1vs1. And people literally hide them until there are two or three, all while losing the entire map.

Which is why this doesn't make sense to me.

The opponent basically just loses the entire map to my overwhelming infantry and tactics, and yet still produces two huge tanks that steamroll everything. With a fuel point in the enemy's hands, that number increases to three or even FOUR huge tanks.

This has nothing to do with winning or losing, nor with relaxing and expecting the match to be won.

It just doesn't make any sense to me why players aren't punished for losing the entire map.

What incentive is there to capture territory at all like this?
Why should I expect ANY tanks if I dominate resource points?

I specifically started experimenting and playing full defense, letting my opponent have resources on his half of the map and... there's no difference.

They still bring out tanks, and I still either demolish them or get demolished by them depending on the map and faction in question. But the outcome is the same, regardless of whether the opponent managed to maintain a fair amount of point control or lost the entire map.

Seems to go against the core mechanics of point control. And I'm not even talking about non-fuel and non-munitions point control. That doesn't seem to have any impact whatsoever. People literally leave non-fuel/non-munitions points uncapped for half the game in some Propagandacasts I've seen...

Well, I know you're a fan of Imperial Dane. But you haven't posted a replay and your first few posts on .org were basically bashing Relic. I don't know why you keep wasting your time on here if you don't want anyone to review your replays.
Sometimes people will save a cheap tank, like a T34/76 or, maybe, if they have lots of fuel, a T70, but high level players will usually bring a tank onto the field ASAP in order to maximize its shock value, especially light tanks. Sometimes that doesn't mean bringing the tank into combat. Players will often leave a tank behind an important point and if you don't send anything over there, you won't find the tank.

that doesn't makesense to anyone ,let share the replay to us atleast

+1

Upload the replay so we can actually see what you are talking about because in my experience if you are dominating you opponent and actually being aggressive, there is little they can do (unless they are outplaying you, in which case you are probably not dominating them).

+1



Storm Elite, if you don't understand why cutting off territory "doesn't work" then you don't understand how the resources work in game. Here's a quick rundown. Players get +4 fuel for owning 0 territory. 300 manpower/ minute and +0 muni. Each point increases fuel income by 3/minute and munitions income by 6/minute. Players have a maximum popcap of 100. For every 1 popcap, 1.5 manpower/minute is deducted from the starting manpower rate of 300/minute.

Every three seconds, VPs are deducted. Here's a chart.
You: Opponent: Result:
3 VP 0 VP -3 VP opponent
2 VP 0 VP -2 VP opponent
1 VP 0 VP -1 VP opponent
2 VP 1 VP -1 VP opponent
1 VP 1 VP -0 VP
1 VP 2 VP -1 VP you
0 VP 1 VP -1 VP you
0 VP 2 VP -2 VP you
0 VP 3 VP -3 VP you


Edit:

If you like Imperial Dane so much, here's a video of his. Have you seen it?

I uploaded this replay.

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  VS

  ~TAB~ GBPirate

  haruky

  Why I love CoH2

  by: Gbpirate map: Langreskaya

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Dane saw it and then for some reason decided to cast it. I dunno why he did, but he did. Maybe if you upload your replays then he'll decide to cast them too.

1) What is "Huge tank"?
2) You probably overinvested in lower tech tiers, while your opponent rushed for a medium tank.

This is the classic 1v1 meta. If you are playing and all of a sudden start winning and getting map control it is because your opponent has stopped making things to save for tanks. He is weak for a few minutes while he saves up. He probably won the game early and has enough resources from then to win. When you start winning easily in the middle of the game, start making AT guns fast! KT is on the way...

1. What are the time lines here? Did you base pin him in 5-10min,10-15min-15-25min?
2. Knowing you had him based pin/territory control over him, did you go for medium tanks, did you go for heavy tanks? Did you even tech tiers? Or did you go in call ins?
3. A mental handycap. You owned him so hard you gave the controller to your little brother and walked away??

People tend to rape people and become careless. They do things that arnt normal such as go tier 4 and panzerwerfer

Or carelessly lose units

Not build support units/caches

Orrrr your talking about finally base pinning someone in the 15-25 min mark and they was able to rush a medium tank with good AI and frankly outplay you and your now on coh2 salty