FBP V1.1 UPDATE

The jackson needs enough HP to survive 2 heavy-TD shots with at least 20HP (to prevent abandon RNG), so that the jackson doesn't become useless.

Forget about all other changes, and all other arguments and reasons made, this has been the goal from the start. All those replays, all that feedback, all those discussions aren't going to change this. There is absolutely nothing that is going to change this opinion/reality/choice/wtf.

I'm willing to bet at this point that if Elefants and JTs damage isn't dropped to 280 from 320, the answer will to give Jacksons 660 health. Probably in spite of any debate, input, or questions.

Everything you describe as to what a Jackson 'needs' to be can be accomplished through increasing its close range penetration so that it can reliably penetrate heavy tanks and giving it the 560 health shared by the M10. It can then close, it can deal damage.

Reducing its max range accuracy could be an option too, but not its penetration necessarily.

Increasing the Jackson's health to 560, not 600, means that the vehicle has durability from everything that isn't an Elefant. It's probably not going to get through, but I'd hope you can understand that the StuG and especially Elefant are effective crutches for Ostheer at this point. Try to think of them not as 'killing Jacksons in 2 shots' as they are 'reducing the amount of shots to kill enemy tanks by one'. Have you ever considered that Elefants being so common is a symptom of a greater issue with Ostheer? (That perhaps any amount of changes to the Jackson won't solve?)

In team games, there are rarely more than one or two panthers fielded at any given time. Anything more or less is cost-prohibitive and inefficient. There are, however, often two to three Jacksons per USF player in my experiences. And I'm not even mentioning pop cap.

But the most important question to me is: "Where is the Sherman's role supposed to fit into this equation with this idea of the Jackson?"

I agree with the jackson having extra hp but

The jackson also requires 60 range still, because there's no other way USF can survive vs 55-range OKW Panther.

wtf, based solely on that its getting 60 range? thats bullshit, at 55 range it can trade with the panther having superior accuracy and 0.75 moving accuracy. "USF cant survive against Okw panther", what the shit did you remove bazookas , at nades and the 57mm AT gun from ur mod?

I agree with the jackson having extra hp but



wtf, based solely on that its getting 60 range? thats bullshit, at 55 range it can trade with the panther having superior accuracy and 0.75 moving accuracy. "USF cant survive against Okw panther", what the shit did you remove bazookas , at nades and the 57mm AT gun from ur mod?

Learn math: 24*0.04*0.65 > 200/320*24*0.04*0.75

And you put it's HP to 600 in order to allow it to be 3-shot by Tigers and Panthers later on, units which the Jackson is actually supposed to counters. This recreates the problem of the Jackson being out of combat after just 1 shot allowing axis heavy tanks free hunting among USF troops.

So what's the intended counter to the Jackson if I might ask? According to your previous posts it's not the stug, pIV, PV, JP4, or PVI. What is it? Or is the Jackson supposed to be top of the food chain for a lower price?

Also, how does one shot from a panther or Tiger take it out of combat? Last I checked 600hp-200hp= 400hp not 0. Does the Jackson get a main gun disabled at 400hp or something?

It also has 10/15 extra range than the tiger and panther while still being faster than both (except slightly slower max speed that panther) meaning it can kite.

I agree with the jackson having extra hp but



wtf, based solely on that its getting 60 range? thats bullshit, at 55 range it can trade with the panther having superior accuracy and 0.75 moving accuracy. "USF cant survive against Okw panther", what the shit did you remove bazookas , at nades and the 57mm AT gun from ur mod?

Its funny cuz the ost and okw panther actually have 50 range not 55 so the Jackson could still out range the panther even with 55 range.

b4 howitzer needs some love in team games. needs more accuracy and aoe

b4 howitzer needs some love in team games. needs more accuracy and aoe

You know that they are much better when you shoot NOT in the fow.

So what's the intended counter to the Jackson if I might ask? According to your previous posts it's not the stug, pIV, PV, JP4, or PVI. What is it? Or is the Jackson supposed to be top of the food chain for a lower price?

The Jackson is literally the top of USF AT, then there's nothing for a long time until Bazookas and AT-guns come into play. The JP4 is the counter to the Jackson, however both are tank destroyers and should inflict reasonable damage on each other or else there would be no point in building one or another. If you fear the Jackson becoming OP just compare it to the Firefly.

Also, how does one shot from a panther or Tiger out it out of combat? Last I checked 600hp-200hp= 400hp not 0. Does the Jackson get a main gun disabled at 400hp or something?

It also has 10/15 extra range than the tiger and panther while still being faster than both (except slightly slower max speed that panther) meaning it can kite.

The Axis have something called Blitzkrieg or Combat Blitz, both offer tremendous buffs to mobility, survivability and in case of Combat Blitz even accuracy (+100%). Once these units give chase to a 200hp Jackson not even a snare will save you.

Also, how does one shot from a panther or Tiger take it out of combat? Last I checked 600hp-200hp= 400hp not 0. Does the Jackson get a main gun disabled at 400hp or something?

In FBP, Panthers and Tigers deal 160 damage. So 600-160 = 440hp. The Jackson is the one with the 200 damage shot.

In FBP, Panthers and Tigers deal 160 damage. So 600-160 = 440hp. The Jackson is the one with the 200 damage shot.

We are discussing on the premise of Tigers and Panthers having 200 dmg as in the Balance Mod. The Jackson having 600hp is part of the balance mod too. The connection is obvious.

Theres no other reason why the Jackson should deviate so much from the hp norm (160, 240, 320, 400, 480, 560, 640, 720, 800, 960, 1040, 1280) in the FBP.

We are discussing on the premise of Tigers and Panthers having 200 dmg as in the Balance Mod. The Jackson having 600hp is part of the balance mod too. The connection is obvious.

Theres no other reason why the Jackson should deviate so much from the hp norm (160, 240, 320, 400, 480, 560, 640, 720, 800, 960, 1040, 1280) in the FBP.

Panzerschrecks also don't follow the 80-damage increment convention you mention. With 600HP, it will take 5 schrecks to kill the jackson.

600HP is also just enough for the Jackson to survive 2KT hits and a faust (albeight with 20HP). 600HP is also just enough to survive 2 Elefant/JT shots in the mod.

Panzerschrecks also don't follow the 80-damage increment convention you mention. With 600HP, it will take 5 schrecks to kill the jackson.

That's because 80 is too low, 160 too much and they originally came in pairs, resulting in 240 dmg.
Basically you set it to 600 hp, just for the case of 5 Schrecks instead of 6?

In FBP, Panthers and Tigers deal 160 damage. So 600-160 = 440hp. The Jackson is the one with the 200 damage shot.

He was assuming the Eastern front balance mod where the panther and tiger have 200dmg and I was responding assuming the same. The fact that they dont even do 200dmg just proves my point further.

The Jackson is literally the top of USF AT, then there's nothing for a long time until Bazookas and AT-guns come into play. The JP4 is the counter to the Jackson, however both are tank destroyers and should inflict reasonable damage on each other or else there would be no point in building one or another. If you fear the Jackson becoming OP just compare it to the Firefly.

So whats the top of the AT for ostheer? Whats ostheers answer to the jackson?

The Firefly is already a problem for ostheer to deal with due to its high accuracy, range, and damage. However, it can be dived far more easily that the jackson because it has half (1.6 opposed to 3) the acceleration and -1.2 the top speed of the jackson making it hard to kite with. Brits also don't have rifles with snares preventing chases. THAT is why the firefly has the standard 640 HP. It also costs more and has a slower rotating turret.

The Axis have something called Blitzkrieg or Combat Blitz, both offer tremendous buffs to mobility, survivability and in case of Combat Blitz even accuracy (+100%). Once these units give chase to a 200hp Jackson not even a snare will save you.

a 15% top speed boost and 30% increased acceleration aren't what I'd consider "tremendous buffs to mobility. HVAP increases damage AND accuracy which offsets the survivability part o blitzkrieg.

Also, since when did 600hp-200 dmg from a tiger/panther = 200hp?

The jackson needs enough HP to survive 2 heavy-TD shots with at least 20HP (to prevent abandon RNG), so that the jackson doesn't become useless.

....

well considering those heavy TDs are team game creatures, I think I can confidently say that Jackson is not useless in the live version of the game in 2v2+... no where near useless...

the problem of getting super hard countered by the ele and JT is a part of a greater problem of team games where JT and ELE just becomes the critical mass bomb i.e. both sides are at even power with a few tanks on each players' command and axis team getting ELE or JT will just swing the balance of armour power pendulum way over to the axis side. In which case 90% if the time, then the allies only option is to get enough AT and AI to hold off while getting katyusha, land mattress and calliope to wipe axis inf (those three units basically have the same problem where they are handle-able one to two at a time but becomes absolutely unmanageable once they hit critical mass).

so i think 280 damage for super TDs are the right way to go to reduce the critical mass problem by making medium tanks able to withstand 1 more shot and its impact will be big - we've seen similar impact with stewie... but the quoted line is a poor reasoning to give jackson extra HP, let alone a new role.

I think it's hilarious that they bothered to revert the cost of the flame Hetzer, but didn't bother making the unit useable in any way. That piece of garbage could come out at 3 CP and it would still be worthless. I don't know, maybe it wasn't included in the scope, but still.

I also don't particularly like the look of the new Walking Stuka. Taking out team weapons is basically its entire purpose, because hitting moving blobs is much tricker with the old Stuka. Maybe the new scatter will make it function more like a standard rocket arty piece, I don't know, because I've only used the new Stuka at all a few times in AI matches. Still, I don't think the Stuka needs such a radical overhaul at all.

The jackson needs enough HP to survive 2 heavy-TD shots with at least 20HP (to prevent abandon RNG), so that the jackson doesn't become useless.

(Note that jackson still has a massive 24 target size, which makes it a shell-magnet)

The jackson also requires 60 range still, because there's no other way USF can survive vs 55-range OKW Panther.

Finally, USF requires a unit that has decent penetration up close, because there's nothing else that USF can throw at a King Tiger camping at the "wrong" type of maps.

The jackson should have good enough cost-efficiency so that USF can fight it out vs heavy armour in the late-game.

Finally, the jackson should have low enough accuracy and low enough cost-efficiency to prevent Jackson from hardcountering everything on wheels.

So, that's what the design of v1.1 Jackson looks like.

Well..than you must nerf the rifles and/ or the pick ups they can get.

terminator infantery and tanks? sounds a little bit to good

Its funny that you guys all talk about Jackson.

Nothing about pakhowie or stuka, or new maxims spam or isg xD

the Jackson is to cheap for its new perfomnanche.

remember: why should such a cheap unit have a easy job with such a expensive panther?

panther is well know as a tank destroyer....one of the most expansive one. Why should it struggle to kill a tank? (jackson is a tank)

jackson schould cost minimun 165fuel than...it is very fast, heigh Hp, high accu, high dmg, high rof, huge range, have turrent....and is really cheap. give it mgs and its better than panther.

Its funny that you guys all talk about Jackson.

Nothing about pakhowie or stuka, or new maxims spam or isg xD

Maxim spam is fine, just smoke´n´flank

isg is balanced, only problem is mortar pit with its range , it´s a shame brace didn´t make it into live changes things could have been a lot different now

EDIT: JACKSON is fine, needed that buff, the problem is that panther deserved one as well (dmg increase to 200)