FBP V1.1 UPDATE

What's fine about your only decent heavy ANTI-TANK unit getting hardcountered by a tank for the same cost? Why should I build this tank against OKW in the first place?
I find it quite funny how your first idea about the Jackson may have been benificial to 1v1 but would have screwed USF in 2v2+ even more, despite claiming this patch to be adressing teamgames.

And the Jackson is still hardcountered by the jags even with more range due to target size and rate of fire. You build Jacksons to engage KT, Panthers, and non-TD units.

The range is out of question since the Jackson gets hardcountered by the JP4 and is much less effective against range 50 tanks. The Jackson suffers from a severe delay between the target entering his range and the outgoing shot. You'd know that ofc... if you actually played USF.

Jagd is suppose to hard counter the Jackson lel, u want the Jackson to counter every vehicle in the game including specialized tank destoyers leel. And if you actually played every other faction instead of USF, youd know youd get these weird delays with may tanks of all factions and its my small issue anyway

wow calm your tits dude, if u srsly think the jackosn is fine at 135 fuel.......lol please since the jadpanzer cost more should it also get the jacksons speed, turret, damage, access to HVP shell etc no.



FYI I HAVE BEEN PLAYING THE MOD.

Now when it comes to jackons, first it needs a cost increase. OR it needs to be effective counter to heavies but venerable to mediums. e.g. since ostheer is the "gold standard" the stug nerfs is to make sure its good at countering mediums whilst you get the panther to counter heavies. The jackson however, counters all tanks at EASE. even though USF has access to bazookas and ATG's which are effective vs mediums already.

This is why i proposed a range decrease so axis medium tanks can fight more effectively vs jacksons. Any small nerfs to the precious USF and people lose ther sh*t

But that's because the Jackson is all the USF has in armor department to counter Tanks, not counting Commanders, it's just asymetrical balance bro~

The health buff is entirely to make Jacksons able to survive two shots from elefants and jts. Thats been the goal for months here. The consequences aren't being consideted as important as creating a style of gameplay where usf can tank dedicated heavy tank destroyers without having to position or flank.

I don't think the health buff would be considered if Elefants and jts were reduced to just 300 damage or left at 320.

The only way Jacksons would get 640 health is if the heavy tds were only dropped to 300.

while being two shotted by those heavies were a problem in team games for all normal tanks, once ele and jt damage are nerfed to 280, i have no problem having a select few tanks still ebing able to be two shotted by ele or JT.

i mean, was i the only one having no problems with Jacksons in 2v2+? i cannot see any substantial reason to give jacksons a new role.

My suggestion
"To push the M36 into the role of heavy tank hunter, we have increased the unit’s health and accuracy to better allow the unit to be more aggressive when assaulting hostile tanks, but have slightly reduced the range and increased the cost to compensate.
• Health from 480 to 600
• Accuracy from 0.06/0.045/0.03 to 0.06/0.05/0.04
• Fixed an issue where HVAP Rounds were unresponsive when switching targets
• Range from 60 to 55
• Cost from 350/125 to 400/145"

Those were good changes.

Increasing accuracy is not something needed for a "heavy tank hunter" since heavy tanks already have large target size.

Increasing accuracy simply make medium tanks like the PzIV obsolete.

One has to keep in mind that M36/Su-85/FF not only have very good chances to hit mediums at max range but even get bonus accuracy from veterancy. JP is separate issue since it has lower penetration and OKW luck a 60 range atg.

These units should actually have lower accuracy allowing medium tanks to operate and not be completely shutdown by them.

just let them buff jackson this is gardenig ridiculus how someone can even talk how op is now jezus christ, people cry how bad is ost panther wtf? Pls add that super jackson to wermaht and that poor ost panther to usf. and still good luck with ele and brumbar combo lol my english is too narrow to tell you all my thoughts how usf is bad in lategame in 4v4

Every patch has it's own black sheep

WBP was all about penals
FBP is all about Jackson

The problem is that you always try to look at the unit in vacuum.

For example penals are fine if they are not followed by strong dushka.

It's the same with Jackson. Its not OP it just lacks counters from Ostheer side because panther accuracy was meant to be increased and damage should have went to 200 like it is in EFA mod. This way panther would reliable counter Jackson killing it just in 3 shots.


The problem is that the scope may hire didn't allow us to get panther in scope as well. Why can't you cry for panther buff instead of Jackson nerf. Jackson needs a buff and does his hardcounter - panther

Every patch has it's own black sheep

WBP was all about penals
FBP is all about Jackson

The problem is that you always try to look at the unit in vacuum.

For example penals are fine if they are not followed by strong dushka.

It's the same with Jackson. Its not OP it just lacks counters from Ostheer side because panther accuracy was meant to be increased and damage should have went to 200 like it is in EFA mod. This way panther would reliable counter Jackson killing it just in 3 shots.


The problem is that the scope may hire didn't allow us to get panther in scope as well. Why can't you cry for panther buff instead of Jackson nerf. Jackson needs a buff and does his hardcounter - panther

for me its not about jacksons.

its about unneccessary changes, jackson being one of them.

another one is camo-ed units not being slowed down once spotted. that change has nothing to do with anything except make it more noob friendly. i dunno, i thought being able to cloak was a great ability that needs some penalty, which in live version slower speed if you forget to turn it off and get spotted. why this needed changing>

why did t70 had to get its recon ability and cap ability combined? i actually been in situations where i wanted to scout but not cap from the inner edge of the cap zones without capping to avoid alerting the enemy. why did this change at all? was this considered as a QoL change? if so i would argue that QoL changes' purpose is not to make game easier.

why did t70 had to get its recon ability and cap ability combined? i actually been in situations where i wanted to scout but not cap from the inner edge of the cap zones without capping to avoid alerting the enemy. why did this change at all? was this considered as a QoL change? if so i would argue that QoL changes' purpose is not to make game easier.

This is quite byzantine. COH2 is mysterious enough can't we give a little on the fringes to support the core effort?

Every patch has it's own black sheep

WBP was all about penals
FBP is all about Jackson

The problem is that you always try to look at the unit in vacuum.

For example penals are fine if they are not followed by strong dushka.

It's the same with Jackson. Its not OP it just lacks counters from Ostheer side because panther accuracy was meant to be increased and damage should have went to 200 like it is in EFA mod. This way panther would reliable counter Jackson killing it just in 3 shots.


The problem is that the scope may hire didn't allow us to get panther in scope as well. Why can't you cry for panther buff instead of Jackson nerf. Jackson needs a buff and does his hardcounter - panther

Remember they also wanted to give the Tiger I 200 damage so it could kill Jacksons in 3 shots if it gets the jump on them.
But with how Fragile and Bouncy it is, and by such nature frustrating to depend on, I enjoy the idea of USF only TD actually being able to do it's job.

Remember they also wanted to give the Tiger I 200 damage so it could kill Jacksons in 3 shots if it gets the jump on them.
But with how Fragile and Bouncy it is, and by such nature frustrating to depend on, I enjoy the idea of USF only TD actually being able to do it's job.

Just gonna point this out. There's a difference between doing a job and making every other unit obselete in its class. Similar to the comet before its nerf in GCS patch. I want the USF to have a TD that can kite heavies and destroy mediums. But I don't want my mediums to be obselete like a kubel as soon as a t70 hits the field.

Just gonna point this out. There's a difference between doing a job and making every other unit obselete in its class. Similar to the comet before its nerf in GCS patch. I want the USF to have a TD that can kite heavies and destroy mediums. But I don't want my mediums to be obselete like a kubel as soon as a t70 hits the field.

The current Jackson works in 1vs1 but beyond that it tends to get smoked by trying to do it's job due to it's low HP, now it's getting a buff to it but almost forcing it to expose itself, while making that worth it to finish off enemy armor... I couldn't be happier about it.

Yes I played the mod. Yes I used the new Ostwind. I like the new Ostwind, I like the new USF and I love the call in changes! But my concerns are not with the Synergy of Ostheer. Rather the fact that tier 4 still ins't viable because you can't go ahead without getting a deep tier 3 build vs USF. This means you will most likeley never get to tier 4 since you need tier 3 to crutch yourself through the game.

This is not a fault of your balance design. This is a faction design flaw that you guys have to work with. The new TWP is really nice and its mg performance is indeed better. But a Jackson can kite it forever and be protected by usf infantry with bazookas and bars, to which the stug is very vulnerable (rightfully so).

A Jackson in its balance preview state played right, is something that can basically shut Ostheer down when supported by a USF heavy infantry play.

This is my big concern with the Jackson health buff as well. Ostheer crutches on its t3 units more than any other faction due to its defensive playstyle vs USF and the Jackson utterly shuts it down with its high mobility, range, dmg, and now health combined with excellent spotting riflemen.

Its high mobility is what sets it apart from all other TDs. That's why it has the poor health as a trade off to give it a proper counter. You don't lose jacksons against ostheer because they're weak. You lose them because you make a huge mistake.

Increasing accuracy is not something needed for a "heavy tank hunter" since heavy tanks already have large target size.

Increasing accuracy simply make medium tanks like the PzIV obsolete.

One has to keep in mind that M36/Su-85/FF not only have very good chances to hit mediums at max range but even get bonus accuracy from veterancy. JP is separate issue since it has lower penetration and OKW luck a 60 range atg.

These units should actually have lower accuracy allowing medium tanks to operate and not be completely shutdown by them.

I thought these were good changes because it allowed the Jackson to be more easily countered by ostheer which has no 60 range TDs in addition to making it less frustrating to use since it got a health buff and more accuracy (aka less RNG deoendance). It made it more predictable

for me its not about jacksons.

its about unneccessary changes, jackson being one of them.

another one is camo-ed units not being slowed down once spotted. that change has nothing to do with anything except make it more noob friendly. i dunno, i thought being able to cloak was a great ability that needs some penalty, which in live version slower speed if you forget to turn it off and get spotted. why this needed changing>

why did t70 had to get its recon ability and cap ability combined? i actually been in situations where i wanted to scout but not cap from the inner edge of the cap zones without capping to avoid alerting the enemy. why did this change at all? was this considered as a QoL change? if so i would argue that QoL changes' purpose is not to make game easier.

I will tell you a story.

In 1997 game called age of empires was born. It was one of the first RTS games on the Earth and was really good when we look at the time when it was published. You may be asking why I´m talking about aoe right ?

In that game you´ve lacked unit queue. This meant you can only be creating 1 unit from 1 building at the time and then you had to go back to your city and click on another. This meant you had to divide your attention between your city and your fighting army, chose what is more important: winning the fight or possibly losing the fight but having standing army right in front of your gates once the fight ends.

This led to simple yet interesting tactical decission. Divide your attention between your city and army, losing more fights but having more numerous army, or having an army of veterans, properly microed, with supplies arriving only between the fights, when you had time to pay attention to your city.

Then in aoe2 developers decided to add unit queue into game. This created another interesting situation, that you now have to pay minimal attention to your city once you build it and your economy is going and only micro your army during the fights. By this change players started to micro their armies more, creating far more interesting fight outcomes.


As you can see, changing some of the core game elements to make it more "user friendly" surely removes some of the features that the game has, but on the other hand it gives player an option to focus his attention more in other parts of the game, creating far different (and possibly more interesting) outcomes of the fight.

For example in coh2, now you don´t have to artifficially micro your t70/raketten and thus you can focus elsewhere. After all, in coh2 you always have to do something somewhere, either microing a perfect tank flank while your raks are ambushed or microing your penals, dodging nade instead of double clicking at the t70.

You don´t have to agree with me, after all still many aoe fans prefer the aoe1 system and many prefer aoe2 queue system. I think it always comes to personal taste of the player.

I myself like to focus more on "real combat" than making artifficial moves like doubleclicking the t70 or uncloaking the rakk.

In 1997 game called age of empires was born. It was one of the first RTS games on the Earth ...

RTS, unit queueing, UI design and other related gameplay elements were widespread long before 1997, even long before Westwood brought it to the masses with their popular hits C & C / Dune. Elements of the user interface were influenced by advances in human-computer-interaction research since the 80s but video-games designers were strubborn and tried to reinvent the wheel that is the user-interface countless times, before giving up and accepting widely spread methodologies. Anyway, this is vastly off-topic and I kept it short.

I thought these were good changes because it allowed the Jackson to be more easily countered by ostheer which has no 60 range TDs in addition to making it less frustrating to use since it got a health buff and more accuracy (aka less RNG deoendance). It made it more predictable

and some of those changes are in good direction, increasing accuracy is simply not one of them.

TDs with long range and high penetration (that have around 100% change to penetrate vs meduim max range) should have low accuracy so that they can miss vs mediums. Elephant (and JT) have their effectiveness reduced vs mediums although they already less DPS than FF,Su-85,M36 (JP also is too accurate but the unit simply need a redesign) at range 60.

The accuracy of this unit should be similar to Elephant and the vet bonus accuracy removed (or moved at higher level) or their accuracy should go even lower so that they become effective vs mediums once they vet.

(panzer general is great game by the way)

The jackson needs enough HP to survive 2 heavy-TD shots with at least 20HP (to prevent abandon RNG), so that the jackson doesn't become useless.

(Note that jackson still has a massive 24 target size, which makes it a shell-magnet)

The jackson also requires 60 range still, because there's no other way USF can survive vs 55-range OKW Panther.

Finally, USF requires a unit that has decent penetration up close, because there's nothing else that USF can throw at a King Tiger camping at the "wrong" type of maps.

The jackson should have good enough cost-efficiency so that USF can fight it out vs heavy armour in the late-game.

Finally, the jackson should have low enough accuracy and low enough cost-efficiency to prevent Jackson from hardcountering everything on wheels.

So, that's what the design of v1.1 Jackson looks like.

The jackson needs enough HP to survive 2 heavy-TD shots with at least 20HP (to prevent abandon RNG), so that the jackson doesn't become useless.

(Note that jackson still has a massive 24 target size, which makes it a shell-magnet)

The jackson also requires 60 range still, because there's no other way USF can survive vs 55-range OKW Panther.

Finally, USF requires a unit that has decent penetration up close, because there's nothing else that USF can throw at a King Tiger camping at the "wrong" type of maps.

The jackson should have good enough cost-efficiency so that USF can fight it out vs heavy armour in the late-game.

Finally, the jackson should have low enough accuracy and low enough cost-efficiency to prevent Jackson from hardcountering everything on wheels.

So, that's what the design of v1.1 Jackson looks like.

And you put it's HP to 600 in order to allow it to be 3-shot by Tigers and Panthers later on, units which the Jackson is actually supposed to counters. This recreates the problem of the Jackson being out of combat after just 1 shot allowing axis heavy tanks free hunting among USF troops.

This recreates the problem of the Jackson being out of combat after just 1 shot allowing axis heavy tanks free hunting among USF troops.

thats exactly how infantry play feels like as ostheer