Emplacement Pack-Up Poll (mortar pit = 50MP)

Yeah I was thinking of that too; perhaps a better option is if the Mortar pit model simply removes the mortar and crew, and becomes a universal trench.
You can even just leave the mortars there, and they are "active" once you get a squad inside; simplest implementation is that being able to attack is disabled unless Forward Assembly is in range or it is garrisoned.
The pit itself then can cost no popcap, but the cost can remain the same, as it is now entirely dependent on infantry or FA presence to work; tactically if you need them somewhere else you need to consider sacrificing its ability to function.
The biggest thing about this idea is that the number of pits is based entirely on the number of squads you have trained; if you really want to spam mortar pits, you need to train a lot of squads, which leaves no manpower for other stuff.
While technically the ability to "leapfrog" mortars still exists, it requires you to train and use an infantry squad for that role, leaving you with less mobile field presence. Abandoning the pit to repair, re-crew or recapture territory means no active pit unless you bring in another squad.

Yeah I was thinking of that too; perhaps a better option is if the Mortar pit model simply removes the mortar and crew, and becomes a universal trench.
You can even just leave the mortars there, and they are "active" once you get a squad inside; simplest implementation is that being able to attack is disabled unless Forward Assembly is in range or it is garrisoned.
The pit itself then can cost no popcap, but the cost can remain the same, as it is now entirely dependent on infantry or FA presence to work; tactically if you need them somewhere else you need to consider sacrificing its ability to function.
The biggest thing about this idea is that the number of pits is based entirely on the number of squads you have trained; if you really want to spam mortar pits, you need to train a lot of squads, which leaves no manpower for other stuff.
While technically the ability to "leapfrog" mortars still exists, it requires you to train and use an infantry squad for that role, leaving you with less mobile field presence. Abandoning the pit to repair, re-crew or recapture territory means no active pit unless you bring in another squad.

PLUS Uinless its disabled) a trench type unit under constant barrage will have its occupants take losses which is kinda important

If your goal is to relocate the mortar when its no longer needed at that position, then why do you put refund on it? why not just relocate?

Can i buy an AT gun as well, and send it back for 75% refund, when no tanks around?

Don't think so..

Yeah I was thinking of that too; perhaps a better option is if the Mortar pit model simply removes the mortar and crew, and becomes a universal trench.
You can even just leave the mortars there, and they are "active" once you get a squad inside; simplest implementation is that being able to attack is disabled unless Forward Assembly is in range or it is garrisoned.
The pit itself then can cost no popcap, but the cost can remain the same, as it is now entirely dependent on infantry or FA presence to work; tactically if you need them somewhere else you need to consider sacrificing its ability to function.
The biggest thing about this idea is that the number of pits is based entirely on the number of squads you have trained; if you really want to spam mortar pits, you need to train a lot of squads, which leaves no manpower for other stuff.
While technically the ability to "leapfrog" mortars still exists, it requires you to train and use an infantry squad for that role, leaving you with less mobile field presence. Abandoning the pit to repair, re-crew or recapture territory means no active pit unless you bring in another squad.

Just subscribe to Planet Smasher's artillery pit mod on the workshop.

If your goal is to relocate the mortar when its no longer needed at that position, then why do you put refund on it? why not just relocate?

There are two reasons for this:
1. We are unable to think of a way to make the relocate fit into the existing UI
2. To completely disincentivize an indirect-fire arms race from forming in the first place

The Mortar Pit in our mod has a short range. You would never spam it because you cover so little ground. If you spam it, you need to cover all flanks carefully, and will be at the constant mercy of infiltration units. That is, unless you want to see your sim city vaporise in seconds to FG42 fire.

Then, even if you sell all of the Pits, you would always end up losing a lot of resources.

Without pack-up, the enemy simply has to mass their indirect fire assets, wreck your sim city (while you're helpless without Brace) and then auto-win.

Without pack-up; massing up indirect fire to wreck Sim City (i.e., the current Meta) would only be strengthened by range decrease and Brace nerf. (Note that Mortar/ISG spam is equally cancerous to Sim City).

With pack-up, there is no incentive for the enemy to ever enter this indirect-fire arms race. If the enemy overcommits to spamming indirect fire, they know that the Brit player can sell their static emplacements and make Axis indirect-fire investment worthless.

Therefore, with this arrangement, neither the Brit nor OST/OKW have an incentive to ever enter an indirect-fire spam race. This leads to less cancer.

Can i buy an AT gun as well, and send it back for 75% refund, when no tanks around?

Don't think so..

If you paid for the AT gun by yourself, you would never, ever sell it. That's because an AT gun is always useful.

The only way you would ever sell an AT gun is if you stole it from the ground; that's not possible with emplacements.

The only way the Mortar Pit ends up costing 50MP is if you end up with no Mortar Pit and no veterancy after you've managed to sell it successfully.

Basically, you spent 50MP for nothing, and the more emplacements you build, the higher the loss is going to be.

Get your use out of insanely effective mortar pit then reclaim most your resources after you use it? Lol. Ok so there is 2 practical uses of this, A) reclaim your resources as it loses value or B) relocate it for cheaper when the frontline advances.

If A is the reasoning, hell no. If B, well then you should implement trucks to redeploy on map howitzers too to at least have some consistency.

Get your use out of insanely effective mortar pit then reclaim most your resources after you use it? Lol. Ok so there is 2 practical uses of this, A) reclaim your resources as it loses value or B) relocate it for cheaper when the frontline advances.

If A is the reasoning, hell no. If B, well then you should implement trucks to redeploy on map howitzers too to at least have some consistency.

What the OP has knowingly and maliciously failed to report is that pack-up is supposed to come with significant decreases in durability and range. Otherwise sure; live version Mortar Pit with pack-up would be stupid OP.

Also, the 200MP Mortar Pit comes with one single mortar. The durability changes make it that a single flanking squad will require about 10-20 seconds to completely kill the mortar (depending on squad weapons and regardless of brace).

Finally, you need to actually commit a single squad to constantly garrison the mortar pit, if you want it to fire like an actual mortar (i.e., none of the FRP aura bullshit).

Brace
Our changes to Brace make it so the ability can no longer be used to deny flanks and absorb mass amounts of damage. Instead, it is an ability that can be used to prolong the emplacement’s lifespan against off-maps and indirect fire.

- Duration reduced from 30 to 5
- Recharge time reduced from 75 to 60
- No longer increases emplacement armor
- Now also reduces incoming damage to garrisoned squad by 75%

Motar Pit
- We find that the main issue with the current design of the mortar pit is that:
400MP is too much of an investment for the early game, where the British faction is already fragile
- At the same time, the Mortar Pit has a very long range, which makes it a problematic unit to play against in certain types of maps
- The autoattack range in particular, permits Mortar Pits to harass and wipe squads in a big area with little input
- The Mortar Pit is static, and is the only real tool British can use to combat indirect fire.
- Finally, we feel that the Mortar Pit offers very little utility outside raw killing power (e.g., smoke is available at Vet1 and is ineffective).

The durability changes to the Mortar Pit will make the pit:
- More cost-efficient vs indirect fire
- Vulnerable to flanking infantry units (especially with automatic weapons)
- Less vulnerable to ballistic AT shots fired from a distance

Overall:
- Now comes with a single mortar
- Can be upgraded to a second mortar
- Ready aim time normalised for all attacks to improve responsiveness

1-Mortar
- Costs 200MP/6 popcap
- Building time increased from 90 seconds to 120 seconds
- Hitpoints from 700 to 720
- Armor from 5 to 1
- Target size from 40 to 1.5
- Auto-attack range reduced from 120 to 85
- HE Barrage range reduced from 150 to 120
- HE/Smoke barrage cooldown reduced from 75 to 60
- Smoke barrage now available at Vet0


Smoke Barrage
- Smoke barrage range increase from 90 to 150
- Smoke barrage has a separate cooldown from Barrage
- Smoke barrage cooldown reduced from 75 to 60
- Fixed an issue where the smoke barrage was not covering a contiguous area
- Now, only one mortar will contribute to the smoke barrage

The changes to the smoke barrage will make it so that a Mortar Pit can still contribute to the fight even when the battle-lines have shifted.

2-Mortar upgrade
- Costs 150MP/3 popcap
- (30-second upgrade)
- Increases hitpoints by 75%
- Reduces cooldown for HE/Smoke barrage by 33%

The prime reason why somebody would want to upgrade a 2nd mortar to their Pit (instead of building a new Pit) is because the garrison bonus (-50% reload) now requires a unit to be present. Being able to increase the performance of 2 mortars with a single unit is more cost-efficient.

What the OP has knowingly and maliciously failed to report is that pack-up is supposed to come with significant decreases in durability and range.

By directly quoting a changelog and asking people if they like the idea of brits having a version of withdraw and refit for their emplacements?

By directly quoting a changelog and asking people if they like the idea of brits having a version of withdraw and refit for their emplacements?

Cherrypicking ideas and presenting them out of context is a scumbag move. No excuses and no exceptions.

That is even more so if it's leaving out the remaining 80% of the context, just because they don't confirm your bias.

The OP, knowingly and malicously presented the packup change as a stand-alone change, even though it is our express intent to have this combined with emplacement changes.

Cherrypicking ideas and presenting them out of context is a scumbag move. No excuses and no exceptions.

The OP, knowingly and malicously presented the packup ....

Instead of resorting to name-callings and conspiracy theories you could defend yourself when so many people pointed out the flaws with your " I want to have my cake and eat it too" balance approach.

Instead you acted like a stubborn kid who thinks everyone is wrong expect himself.

Also I disagree when some members claim that "Mr.Smith is doing thankless job."

He is thanking himself by over-buffing his beloved faction (UKF) while nerfing the ones he "hates" (AXIS).

Also I disagree when some members claim that "Mr.Smith is doing thankless job."

He is thanking himself by over-buffing his beloved faction (UKF) while nerfing the ones he "hates" (AXIS).

Not really though. I mean, it's important to keep in mind that CoH2 was broken by Relic trying to reinvent the CoH wheel. Reinventing the reinvented wheel hasn't exactly been a fun or fruitful process. There are fundamental issues with the overall game design that these mods aren't addressing and likely will never address. Part of that responsibility unfortunately lies heavily on Relic. Having spent almost as much time in Mod Tools and Worldbuilder as CoH2 itself, I can relate to the fact of how mind numbingly insane this game can be to try and balance.

Which is why I maintain that design and balance are very different things, and CoH2's problems stem from core design issues, primarily involving maps and their capacity to be made. Until those are addressed, efforts to balance the game will be like weighing with a broken scale.

Cherrypicking ideas and presenting them out of context is a scumbag move. No excuses and no exceptions.

That is even more so if it's leaving out the remaining 80% of the context, just because they don't confirm your bias.

The OP, knowingly and malicously presented the packup change as a stand-alone change, even though it is our express intent to have this combined with emplacement changes.

TBH, I think you're taking both the production of this, and response to it, way too personally. I think the OP posted a specific change because the changes in your revamp mods have dominated every thread and discussion in the balance and gameplay forums.

Just move these revamp threads to the modding section already. People are freaking out because of the kind of power you guys have enjoyed over this game. Keep all this there until there's actually involvement with Relic and the community.

Feel free to invite people to try your revamp mod in balance discussions. In fact, do it with every post! You've been explicit that you want to try and get what you're doing implemented into the game. That's totally fine. I'm still pushing for the changes in the mod in my sig.

But until these sorts of changes are actually official, you really need to understand that no one is obligated to play, like, or care about this mod. You cannot with authority be demanding and expecting any kind of feedback and testing from the community.

So if you're expecting support from anyone, expect it from Relic.

I tried to write that last bit with a straight face. I failed. (I also edited the tone of some of this, as I am really not trying to be adversarial. I'm really just trying to be amicable about this.)

Instead of resorting to name-callings and conspiracy theories you could defend yourself when so many people pointed out the flaws with your " I want to have my cake and eat it too" balance approach.

Instead you acted like a stubborn kid who thinks everyone is wrong expect himself.

*Facepalms*

He said that you left out all the parts of the mortar pits changes that justify this particular one that you've started your latest whine thread on. For the hundredth time, the pit is now less durable, has a shorter range, and is only one mortar. So instead of "I want to have my cake and eat it too" it's more like "I want to have my undeniably worse cake and eat it too"

Speaking of which, you complained that in this mod, because it's a freaking unofficial mod ffs, OKW's 5 vet system is changed so that it doesn't just overbuff units, but gives them little bonuses or whatever. OKW only got 5 vet levels because they had a pretty severe resource penalty that was later removed, but 5 vet levels still stayed. "I want to have my cake and eat it too".