Eastern Front Armies Revamp

I don't have any insightful feedback, just a big thanks to the team who made this mod/preview. Really hope this stuff makes it into the game, I've only played Soviets but they feel fresher and more versatile, as well as more Soviet!

Would a timed and costed heal-aura work for the M3 scout car, instead of crates? Other than perhaps Shocks or Guards, I can't think of any situation where I'd want to spend munis to heal a single squad of lowly Soviets... I'd rather plant another mine, and retreat units to base. The other option that could be explored would have the M3 actually work as a "scout" car, getting a major sight bonus or fog detection ability. Other than that it dies as soon as any late game unit looks at it.

I don't suppose there's any possibility of fixing weapon crew autofacing behavior? Way too often you leave a weapon unfaced so it can defend itself, then when an enemy comes into range they set up their cone of fire with that enemy right at the edge of said cone, instead of dead center. Then the enemy simply moves a few meters and is safe. I know autofacing isn't supposed to be relied on, but I would have through weapon crews should at least auto-center on the first enemy squad that comes into range.

One further thing - Is it possible to give emplacement artillery a voice cue for when their ability is recharged? Otherwise you constantly have to hotkey select the unit to check to see if you can dish out some more pain.

Note that Stugs can no longer assist you that well vs heavy armour, and you're crutching on the Tiger entirely for that.

So, the idea is that playing with T3 only is not really feasible anymore, you'd either need T4 or a Tiger/Ele doctrine?

Also, assuming you have BP2 there is no reason not to research BP3 before calling in the Tiger because the penalty would be more than the price for BP3, right? So other than making the first Tiger more expensive this is basically to make T2-only strategies more difficult? Is that a thing?

So, the idea is that playing with T3 only is not really feasible anymore, you'd either need T4 or a Tiger/Ele doctrine?

Also, assuming you have BP2 there is no reason not to research BP3 before calling in the Tiger because the penalty would be more than the price for BP3, right? So other than making the first Tiger more expensive this is basically to make T2-only strategies more difficult? Is that a thing?

It seems to be the strategy of choice for people playing this mod. Streams and games I've played of the revamp is mostly OST playing T2 and seeing if they can get away with not going T3. So far this hasn't played out well for OST from what I've seen. People want to experiment with skipping T3. It doesn't appear that is a functional option with this mod.

I think the problem is that usually Ostheer games are decided before T4 is an option. The ultimate fate of Ostheer seems to be decided between T2 and T3 phase of gameplay in just about every version of mod and live in recent memory.

The inability to get to T4 is usually a result of being unable to maintain field presence up until that point. I would argue that there's an often false assumption that Ostheer maintains the same resource income as their opponent throughout the game.

I agree what you did with the KV-1, but can be done with the T-34-76?
- Added a hull down animation to the Т-34-76 vet1 ability.
- Vet 1 to "Defense Mode" from "Capture Point". Defense mode halts all movement of the tank in exchange for -0.8 recieved damage and lowers reload speed by 0.85 (with a delay of 5 seconds).

I think that the T-34-76 need this ability in place from "Capture point" to "Defense Mode".
In this moment already there is a technique which captures points this Is The T-70.

T34/76 defense mode? Wtf are you smoking? This tank relies on its agility to survive. It will not benefit in the least from hulling down except it'll be easier to kill.

T34/76 defense mode? Wtf are you smoking? This tank relies on its agility to survive. It will not benefit in the least from hulling down except it'll be easier to kill.

One unreleased Soviet commander had the ability: Fire and Maneuver - increasing speed, turret turn speed but decreasing accuracy. I think for T-34-76 it will be an excellent vetiran ability

One unreleased Soviet commander had the ability: Fire and Maneuver - increasing speed, turret turn speed but decreasing accuracy. I think for T-34-76 it will be an excellent vetiran ability

Sounds tasty. This ability good fit to t-34-76 as medium tank.

One unreleased Soviet commander had the ability: Fire and Maneuver - increasing speed, turret turn speed but decreasing accuracy. I think for T-34-76 it will be an excellent vetiran ability

Its illogical that most axis tanks have vet ability increasing their speed and soviet tanks would have a very similar ability. That would mean that axis tanks should also have a different vet ability. Something that makes them more durable or increases its range and sight range or gives them self-repair. But it still wouldnt address ost problems. Ost struggles because their grens get pushed back too easily by allied infantry.

Its illogical that most axis tanks have vet ability increasing their speed and soviet tanks would have a very similar ability. That would mean that axis tanks should also have a different vet ability. Something that makes them more durable or increases its range and sight range or gives them self-repair. But it still wouldnt address ost problems. Ost struggles because their grens get pushed back too easily by allied infantry.

Wehrmacht, have always been better than Soviet. The concept: Soviets - quantity, Wehrmacht - quality, completely collapsed after the appearance of the WFA and the British. So I suggest making the Soviets a little more qualitative, if I proposed this idea for the T-34-85 it would be very powerful.

Why are most people wanting Ostheer to be able to skip t3? I don't get it. Isn't it better that the modders are trying to make t3 AND t4 TOGETHER more viable in 1v1?

Wouldn't it be cool to 'rush' an Ostwind and then get an affordable T4 and get a Panther out to support it? I don't get you people lol.

One unreleased Soviet commander had the ability: Fire and Maneuver - increasing speed, turret turn speed but decreasing accuracy. I think for T-34-76 it will be an excellent vetiran ability

Yeah, let's call it "Vodka buff".

I'd like to see an ability that doesn't reduce any PRIMARY attributes like accuracy (like every other faction usually have).

So, the idea is that playing with T3 only is not really feasible anymore, you'd either need T4 or a Tiger/Ele doctrine?

Also, assuming you have BP2 there is no reason not to research BP3 before calling in the Tiger because the penalty would be more than the price for BP3, right? So other than making the first Tiger more expensive this is basically to make T2-only strategies more difficult? Is that a thing?

Imo the problem start from the fact that T4 does not have a mainline tank. To make things even worse the option one has is for 2 very expensive specialized units. Finally it gives no other benefits unlike UKFs hammer/anvil.

As I pointed out in another thread (https://www.coh2.org/topic/59266/the-issue-with-ostheer-tech-4) the solution lies in fixing one or more of these issues.

I do not see how forcing Ostheer to be the only factions that has to tech all their tech levels (while having more the most) as step in the right direction.

Imo Ostheer should be allowed to be able to pull T3 or T4 only strategies.

In order for that to happen one could give main battle tank in T4 and/or move brumbar to t3 and ostwind in t4.

I think everyone is missing the point here, so let me explain how things really are.

Currently okw is the strongest faction. It counters basically everyone because it has strong early and incredibly strong late. OKW is the reason why the view of axis is so skewed. OKW needs little or no micro, has great counters and overall a higher tier units when compared to its counterparts.

Soviets were the quality over quantity faction before penals became op with flamers. Now penals are the most versatile vanilla infantry being able to win against infantry and fend off vehicles effectively. On the other hand Soviets used to struggle late game if it did not have heavy armor fielded. But after su85 and t34 buffs they can either with with superior tank destroyer or spam medium tanks. By far the are the strongest allied faction atm.

Brit emplacement design is so flawed that without lefh or really well coordinated attack with smoke its impossible to kill cancer emplacements. Now in 1v1 killing emplacement might not be a problem but in team games it becomes a horror. Because for instance in 2v2 brit mortar covers half of the map most of the time. With self repair + brace brits become unkillable on small maps. This is the most noob friendly faction requiring literally 0 micro with no unit versatility needed. Late game brits is broken because they can combine their t3 with the part of t4 they need. So they can still field the most useful or needed t3 unit and then tech up and build a heavy tank or best medium tank in the game. Not to mention they have the most op tank destroyer in the game with a non vet stun ^^.

USF is the weakest allied faction relying on their superior infantry and early game momentum. Having practically no heavy tanks, cant spam medium tanks they are forced to build jacksons every game and practically going calliope. Kills the fun of playing them.

Then we have struggling OST. Ost struggles literally against every other faction. Your infantry loses to penals, rifleman and IS. Rifle nades were supposed to deny cover but they deal less dmg to units in green cover (go figure). Brits mortar and 120 mm mortars literally oneshot your grens every game. You dont have an effective counter against bofors + mortar combo. Your only chance is to smoke cover and use double paks to kill it or pak with mortar ht or late game use artillery but that forces you into lefh doctrine. There is no lefh doctrine with a heavy tank. So each time you play against brits you are left without a heavy tank. If you play against brits on a city map you are screwed because they can go chrurchill crocodile and you have to buy an expensive artillery for 600 mp and go t4 for a panther to survive while at the same time getting constantly drained by brit superior infantry, commandos, officer, mortars and what ever else. Not to mention brit centurion is far better than ostwind in every possible way. Basically what happened was that brits destroyed the balance because they are 10x better than OST at their own playstyle. They are a better version of OST and without the micro.

So in conclusion EFA revamp is basically going about the balance the wrong way. The first thing that needs to be toned down are brits, then WFA factions and EFA factions last. Why? Because EFA factions are the best designed factions in this game by far. No other faction was so well thought through so versatile with such unique playstyle. I agree changes have to be made but soviets and ost are not the part of the problem. Cancerous brits are, dogshit usf is and op okw is.

I propose leaving EFA revamp for now and begining from scratch with brits rework and wfa rework after. Don't kill the only 2 factions that are actually fun to play.

So in conclusion EFA revamp is basically going about the balance the wrong way. The first thing that needs to be toned down are brits, then WFA factions and EFA factions last. Why? Because EFA factions are the best designed factions in this game by far. No other faction was so well thought through so versatile with such unique playstyle. I agree changes have to be made but soviets and ost are not the part of the problem. Cancerous brits are, dogshit usf is and op okw is.

I propose leaving EFA revamp for now and begining from scratch with brits rework and wfa rework after. Don't kill the only 2 factions that are actually fun to play.

The idea behind the revamp is that EFA are going to be used as the baseline that all other faction are balanced around. Establishing a base line makes sense.

For instance infantry should first be balanced around fighting grenadiers and tds/tanks fighting vs PZIVs.

(Too bad that Penal remain WFA level in the mod).

So in conclusion EFA revamp is basically going about the balance the other way around. The first thing that needs to be toned down are brits, then WFA factions and EFA factions last. Why? Because EFA factions are the best designed factions in this game by far. No other faction was so well thought through so versatile with such unique playstyle. I agree changes have to be made but soviets and ost are not the part of the problem. Cancerous brits are, dogshit usf is and op okw is.

Balance doesn't exist in a vacuum. You mention that balancing OKW and Brits should be our prime priority. Sure, I agree, if we go for Relic myopic Scope-style balancing.

However, bring those factions in line with what? Live-version soviet infantry, or live-version OST teching? Then, what happens when we get to fix Soviets and OST. Do we start all over again, and throw all the effort we put in addressing Brits/OKW down the toilet?.

I value my time, and I don't like complicating things needlessly (e.g., by duplicating effort, WBP-style). Therefore, we decided to add the missing pieces to EFA first, before we even start considering WFA.

What we're doing here, is we took the 2 factions that are the most complete (OST and Soviets), and we're adding the missing pieces, so that their core-unit line-up finally makes sense. We did this because:
- That requires the least amount of effort to get right
- The two factions are the most similar to each other
- We need a solid baseline to balance other factions towards
- Nobody will ever bother playing a balance mod, until there is one matchup that makes sense

Moreover:
- It takes an enormous amount of effort to get the mod going in the first place
- It takes an even greater amount of effort to make adjustments to the mod, as necessary
- If nobody plays the mod, then we would have simply wasted our time making it

However, bring those factions in line with what?

with

2 factions that are the most complete (OST and Soviets)

Basically your logic is to bring the most balanced factions in line with the most broken ones.

with



Basically your logic is to bring the most balanced factions in line with the most broken ones.

1. And then, basically start all over again, when we bring Soviet infantry in line with OST, and make OST teching affordable, right?

2. I mentioned most complete; not most balanced. Both Soviets and OST have an enormous potential for cheese.