Eastern Front Armies Revamp

v2 update:

nice adustments but..

Pak40
- TWP cancels without refund if Pak40 relocates during the ability
- Cost increased from 30 to 35
- Additionally reduces rotation rate by 70% and speed by 60% (8 seconds)

wuts going on here lol

I do not understand why Soviet Mark Target needs to dissipate immediately when the plane is shot down. The planes get shot down almost immediately by OKW without any micro at all. That doesn't seem like a valid attempt at adding "counterplay" to the ability, that just makes it a waste of 80 muni. The plane will get shot down before the ability even starts in many cases, since a 5 second delay is being added.

I do not understand why Soviet Mark Target needs to dissipate immediately when the plane is shot down. The planes get shot down almost immediately by OKW without any micro at all. That doesn't seem like a valid attempt at adding "counterplay" to the ability, that just makes it a waste of 80 muni. The plane will get shot down before the ability even starts in many cases, since a 5 second delay is being added.

+1

To OP/Unofficial balance team:

Is there any chance that T34/85 could be made non-doctrinal, and replaced by the IS2 in doctrines that currently have T34/85's? One of the things that badly unbalances team games is the difference in heavies. Both Ost and OKW can have a heavy tank and still have a good mix of other units. Soviets only have the IS2 in a few doctrines, and none of them really compares to Jaeger Armor on an open map. There are also a bunch of Tiger doctrines that are okay, even if the Tiger isn't all that great.

I do not understand why Soviet Mark Target needs to dissipate immediately when the plane is shot down. The planes get shot down almost immediately by OKW without any micro at all. That doesn't seem like a valid attempt at adding "counterplay" to the ability, that just makes it a waste of 80 muni. The plane will get shot down before the ability even starts in many cases, since a 5 second delay is being added.

Because it's kinda strong? 150% (iirc) damage with no counterplay is kinda bs. At least with the plane weakness there is some counterplay and skill required for it to be used, ie don't use it near OKW t3 or wait until you are distracting t3 with a tank.

Also are you saying that t3 placement doesn't count as counterplay. There is a non negligible risk of placeing it far enough forward for its AA to defend against planes.

I do not understand why Soviet Mark Target needs to dissipate immediately when the plane is shot down. The planes get shot down almost immediately by OKW without any micro at all. That doesn't seem like a valid attempt at adding "counterplay" to the ability, that just makes it a waste of 80 muni. The plane will get shot down before the ability even starts in many cases, since a 5 second delay is being added.

AA changes are likely to come at a later date to ensure planes aren't taken out of the sky instantly, particularly when we start working on OKW.

My ideas for scaling AI Partisans:

1. Make them able to cloak only when not moving at vet 0. Vet 1 Partisans will be able to move while in cloak as long as in cover.
2. Grenades are disabled from cloak, must be uncloaked to be able to throw grenades(to prevent cheesy wipes).
3. Mines are available at start. Not the tripwire ones.
4. Reduce RA and a bit of increased accuracy once they vet to prevent them from getting massacred uncloaked vs vetted units.
5. Vet 3 they receive sprint in cloak and able to capture points faster.(Think Kubel fast)

With these changes its hoped that Partisans can scale better, remove cheesiness in the late game without being all or nothing unit. As both Axis and Allies player its extremely frustrating dealing with and against Partisans right now.

Also hopefully that all loiters in all factions can be normalized and not being gods on the battlefield(looking at you UKF) and price decrease if necessary or make them worthwhile for their cost.

I do not understand why Soviet Mark Target needs to dissipate immediately when the plane is shot down. The planes get shot down almost immediately by OKW without any micro at all. That doesn't seem like a valid attempt at adding "counterplay" to the ability, that just makes it a waste of 80 muni. The plane will get shot down before the ability even starts in many cases, since a 5 second delay is being added.

As it starts immediately and can be activated on all units on the map in sight, it is a bit too strong in the current state of the game. The OKW base flaks are stupid, that's true (why not just remove the AA ability of them?).

But mark target staying active even on a tank not visible to your enemy is also a bit dumb. With mark target, T34/85 become kind of mini Tigers and currently there is nothing you can do about that. Mark Target itself is simply a stupid mechanic, as well as for OKWs Command Panther.

In the isu152 this is fixed double-tap, and in the 12 seconds of TWP, a shot is made and then fires normally or keeping the recharge times.

It is a question; double-tap in TWP?

Observations from 1v1 matchups (against Kpen, Miragefla)

-New iteration of guards are much more bland than they were previously and overlap heavily with penals, lacking a proper niche of their own.

PTRS option is straight up fully inferior to the penal version, with poorer rifles and no snare ensuring they can be bullied by their intended targets up close. With DPs they are, again, very similar to penals as heavy long-range anti-infantry, and again lacking a soft counter to vehicles means they can't harrass nor counterharrass.

Pgrens, obers, jaegers, stormtroopers don't have snares either

They don't directly compete against penals, fulfilling the same function, approximate strength, and cost.

-Pgren G43s are very strong.

Can't say if this is abusable. Cheap, very good accuracy on the move and better ranged profile than STGs means they wipe the floor with almost all soviet infantry, and pick off retreating units with ease.

-Universal change to tierless call-in cost limits game variety.

For the sake of some diversity, certain call-ins could be exempt from the 25% cost increase- if only to give the option of some specific compositions. For example, KV8 + T3, KV1 + T3, Elefant + T3.

-Changes tested that seem great:
Howitzer fuel cost, 0CP arty officer, conscript molotov throw speed, demo charges, shock troop reinforcement, M5 cost reduction, bundle nade nerf, JU87 loiter nerf

-Others:
Prop arty seems very effective. Might warrant look at cost.

KV-1
We are experimenting with giving KV-1 more health to assist with its meatshield role.

-Added a 0.8333333 received damage multiplier (effectively increases health from 800 to 960)
-Vet 1 to "Defense Mode" from "Capture Point". Defense mode halts all movement of the tank in exchange for -0.8 recieved damage and lowers reload speed by 0.85 (with a delay of 5 seconds)

Why complicated things with a damage reduction if the units need 960 HP bring HP to 960.

In addition fix the veterancy bonus, It should vet as heavy tank thus its durability should increase with vet.

Why complicated things with a damage reduction if the units need 960 HP bring HP to 960.

In addition fix the veterancy bonus, It should vet as heavy tank thus its durability should increase with vet.

The reduced dmg received means it has more effective health but can be repaired to full health faster. Not sure this is desirable tho

nice adustments but..

Pak40
- TWP cancels without refund if Pak40 relocates during the ability
- Cost increased from 30 to 35
- Additionally reduces rotation rate by 70% and speed by 60% (8 seconds)

wuts going on here lol

That's badly phrased, oops.

What it means is that if you hit a target with Pak40 TWP, you deal speed and rotation penalties on the target, on top of the blind critical.

Why complicated things with a damage reduction if the units need 960 HP bring HP to 960.

In addition fix the veterancy bonus, It should vet as heavy tank thus its durability should increase with vet.

Giving it a modifier rather than a health bonus makes it repair faster. Brits can support Churchills currently, due to their OP repair speed.

In the isu152 this is fixed double-tap, and in the 12 seconds of TWP, a shot is made and then fires normally or keeping the recharge times.

It is a question; double-tap in TWP?

The change also fixes double-tap in TWP.

Observations from 1v1 matchups (against Kpen, Miragefla)

-New iteration of guards are much more bland than they were previously and overlap heavily with penals, lacking a proper niche of their own.

PTRS option is straight up fully inferior to the penal version, with poorer rifles and no snare ensuring they can be bullied by their intended targets up close. With DPs they are, again, very similar to penals as heavy long-range anti-infantry, and again lacking a soft counter to vehicles means they can't harrass nor counterharrass.

Technically, DP guards have button which you can use in conjunction with a snare (e.g., satchel). Would giving PTRS access to a similar utility help make the unit less bland, in your opinion? Also, did you find a use for the Hit the dirt ability?

-Pgren G43s are very strong.

If 2 G43's are too shitty and 4 G43's are too strong, would 3 G43's be the sweet spot?

-Universal change to tierless call-in cost limits game variety.

I wouldn't really unlatch KV8/KV1 from T4, as they are really strong now in 1v1 (where call-ins are a headache). Elefant, we kinda could change, I guess, depending on where the barrage ends up

-Others:
Prop arty seems very effective. Might warrant look at cost.

Prop arty?

Prop arty?

Propaganda artillery.

I also hope when your given the scope to fix the panther (considering your changes) that you can change the pershings health. I can't help shake the feeling of it being delt with in 4 shot and the pershing having to rely on it's double tap to survive.

Also, I have a gut feeling the panther will be quite formidable in larger team games (as they are quite common). Just wish their were people to play with, ai arnt that great.

The reduced dmg received means it has more effective health but can be repaired to full health faster. Not sure this is desirable tho

I know but we are trying normalize repair speeds across factions.

B4
Redirecting some manpower costs to fuel costs will help long-term sustainability for howitzers, especially for 1v1.

We are experimenting with making B4 shots connect more reliably, while creating avenues for counterplay.

-Cost changed from 600MP to 400MP/50FU
-Popcap to 15
-2 Shells, 10 second cooldown between them
-320 damage each shell
-Second shell received -50% scatter bonus
-Near distance from 2.5 to 1.75
-Angle scatter reduced from 9.25 to 8
-FoW multiplier increased from 1.25 to 2

Should check ROF at vet might be too high.

Suggestion:
1) Increase rotation speed lower the vet bonus rotations speed to make unit more consistent
2) try increasing the speed of entities my make unit more responsive
3) Replace direct fire ability with skill shot similar to Pershing/Tullip make it an AP round not a HE


Maybe consider all howitzer/rocket arty not to be able to aim base sector.

Rapid Conscription
Excessively-long duration for squad-replacement abilities makes counterplay infeasible. We are addressing this issue.

-Reduce duration of the ability from 120 to 70

Replace Conscripts with a new unit. The unit is similar to Conscripts but it can not reinforce and it offer small amount of heal when merged.

This change will help reduce the abuse of the ability while keep it it interesting since one will be able to continue his attack with reinforcement (via merge) he will receive.

Feedback after some testing with friends at a similar level:

-Conscripts. Much more consistent, although I still feel that they are overengineered.

-Demos. They don't kill as much (inflict MP bleed) as I would like, but they work well. Also, is it possible to make the targets stunned and pinned? This way, they can neither fight (original concern was that pinned team weapons continued to fight) nor cap territory (which they can do when stunned).

-G43 PGrens. They feel much stronger now, but not overwhelming. They are great at ranged skirmishes, yes, but they still lose to dedicated long-range infantry (USF and Brits aside, dual DP-28 Guards). Perhaps increase the upgrade's cost to 60~75MU?

-Guards. They are pretty useless without weapon upgrades, and I find myself leaning towards giving them dual DP-28s for the anti-infantry power and Button ability (then killing it with an ATG). Buying two PTRSs aren't enough to keep light vehicles away (e.g. WM Sdkfz. 251/16 Flammpanzerwagen), and one DP-28 plus one PTRS doesn't allow you to kill light vehicles quickly enough, nor have enough anti-infantry power.
I would suggest reverting the weapon loadout to its previous state (4x Mosin 2x PTRS, 2x DP-28 upgrade). Alternatively you could give Guards a "Treadbreaker" ability if they upgrade with a PTRS, however if this was the change.

The Vet 1 Hit the Dirt! ability is pretty decent, however they become a Grenade magnet because they can't stop a Grenadier squad from firing a rifle grenade nor kill a charging Panzergrenadier squad quickly enough. Most of the time you're forced to retreat.
Unfortunately, I have no idea how to improve it.

-All of the changes to advanced mediums (T-34/85, Panther) and heavy tanks/ tank destroyers (Tiger, Elefant, IS-2, ISU-152) are great.

-WM T4 being locked behind T3 is undesirable. I would like to see strategies that involve skipping T3, because it increases strategic diversity.

Will continue to test this mod.

Why are you arguing my player card all of a sudden? I feel like you are trying to shut down dialogue by claiming my opinions (yes I said opinions I know I can be wrong) are biased or irrelevant. I just started playing this game again after not playing for 9 months. Naturally I wanted to play my favorite faction(s) again first. No I've been out of country for the last three weeks so I haven't had time to play all the other factions again since getting back (I've played ten days in the last 9 months).In case your interested, my favorite factions (balance aside) are Ost Brits soviets okw/USF. Aka, I enjoy combined arms more than anything. The reason I defend ostheer is because A) they're my favorite faction (and imo most balanced and best designed) and B) I don't think the balance team plays ostheer teamgames enough to balance it so (just looking at the balance team player cards). It's hard when someone make changes on something that doesn't concern them and don't have experience with. Fair?

Regarding this post, I'm just pointing out this inconsistency is all. Stug is and has been for the last number of years, ostheers answer to tank destroyers and heavy tanks (especially high HP Croc and Churchill) and it already dies to 3TD shots meaning ost struggles a vs allied AT. Seeing nerfs to twp and stug (the answer to Croc or FF) is a big deal since ost relies on their tanks more than any other faction for any form of aggression. Ill have to test out the panther to see how well it takes over the AT department so we'll see. #believe
I hope what I've said sounds fair.

blah blah blah. Why not take smith's suggestion and test other factions instead of regurgitating text all over the place

AT Ambush
We have reduced the CP cost of AT Ambush to better match the ability’s performance due to the speed de-buff ATGs receive when it is used.

-Reduced CP requirements from 5 to 2

Suggestion:
1) If possible have the moving penalties apply to gun only and not crew since the move to slow for instance when the gunner is killed

2) If possible have the penalties remove once detected or have the ability stop when first shot is fired to require less macro.