Eastern Front Armies Revamp

It just seems inconsistent that you (the balance team) don't want the stug to scale into the late game but you do seem to want the SU76 to with its barrage and better penetration. Just pointing out this inconsistency.

You're already a high-ranked OST-only player; you should already have the answer to how powerful the Stug will scale to the late-game, despite the changes. Especially in-light of the mega-buffs to the Ostwind.

If you can't figure that answer out for yourself, play some allies for a change for inspiration; especially USF and Soviets.

@mr. smith

Are there any other options in terms of changing the panther besides the ones proposed?

The same question for spotting scopes and tiger ace.

I do like the stug changes

You're already a high-ranked OST-only player; you should already have the answer to how powerful the Stug will scale to the late-game, despite the changes. Especially in-light of the mega-buffs to the Ostwind.

If you can't figure that answer out for yourself, play some allies for a change for inspiration; especially USF and Soviets.

Yeah the StuG should still scale well into the lategame, it will still have target weakpoint though it does feel increasingly irrelevant and could be replaced at this stage with something else. And will still have a high RoF with good. At most i could maybe see it's vet 2 bonus being more useful. But beyond that the StuG will still have several advantages over the SU76 and will still be pretty good.

I haven't read through all the comments, so I apologize if my points have already been made by others.

Some of this might work and some might not be a great idea, but overall I really like the intentions behind this revamp!

- I absolutely love the diversity of vet1 abilities, giving each unit much more flavor rather than the medkits/flares for everyone.

- I also like the idea of turning the demo charge into a more strategic option rather than a cheesy insta-wipe option.

- Finally I also like the change with guards and giving them the option to purchase the appropriate weapons for the role you want them to have. This will also give soviets more meaningful investment options for their munis rather than the general mine/demo spamming to stem the flooding.

- Having said that, one thing I would probably be reserved about is the changes on partisans. As someone mentioned on reddit, then what would be the point of spawning partisans behind enemy lines if they have no specialized equipment ready? The purpose of partisans is a quick response harrasment, which will be completely negated by stripping them of abilities.

I could see the reasoning behind the cooldown on grenades so AT guys are not able to both snare and schreck and AI guys can't get a guaranteed clear and capture of secluded mgs and mortars.

By sending rifle armed civilians behind enemy lines with only rifles only to place mines and eventually be equiped to put up a fight seems like a very situational ability to put it lightly.

Yeah the StuG should still scale well into the lategame, it will still have target weakpoint though it does feel increasingly irrelevant and could be replaced at this stage with something else. And will still have a high RoF with good. At most i could maybe see it's vet 2 bonus being more useful. But beyond that the StuG will still have several advantages over the SU76 and will still be pretty good.

TWP (all variants) could use some QoL changes to make them easier to use. e.g., activate the ability and then you can fire one and only shot with it, but you have a longer time window to do so.

We can't release all features at once, because it takes time to develop some of them!

- Having said that, one thing I would probably be reserved about is the changes on partisans. As someone mentioned on reddit, then what would be the point of spawning partisans behind enemy lines if they have no specialized equipment ready? The purpose of partisans is a quick response harrasment, which will be completely negated by stripping them of abilities.

I could see the reasoning behind the cooldown on grenades so AT guys are not able to both snare and schreck and AI guys can't get a guaranteed clear and capture of secluded mgs and mortars.

By sending rifle armed civilians behind enemy lines with only rifles only to place mines and eventually be equiped to put up a fight seems like a very situational ability to put it lightly.

The idea behind infiltration changes is that you are not supposed to spawn them exactly where the action is happening; you are supposed to spawn them even further behind, use their stealth to upgrade weapons (it doesn't take long), and THEN strike on the enemy.

In the meantime, you can lay mines with them, and be annoying, etc.

Then, once your hit succeeeds, you retreat, reinforce and try to stealth inside the territory again.

The idea is that if we give infiltration units the right scalability features, they will become a viable long-term investment, rather than something you simply throw away to get a wipe.

You're already a high-ranked OST-only player; you should already have the answer to how powerful the Stug will scale to the late-game, despite the changes. Especially in-light of the mega-buffs to the Ostwind.

If you can't figure that answer out for yourself, play some allies for a change for inspiration; especially USF and Soviets.

Can you replace the stug TWP ability with heat shells that only increase pen and not damage? so that it can scale better into late games without making it OP vs weaker armored vehicles

In regards to Partisans, Mr.Smith. I feel that since we are taking their upgraded weapons away, Regular Partisans are going to be in a very disadvantaged state. Rightfully so mind you but I feel one change should be explored to make them useful, particularly during low Munition situations.

I suggest we give Non-AT Partisans the Anti-Infantry Mines of the "Defense Doctrine" instead of Anti Tank Mines. It certainly would make them more attractive and give them a clear advantage in infiltration scenarios over getting the more long term "Quick AT" of the AT Partisans. It sticks to their Anti-Infantry Role and allows you to use traps that are more cost efficient during intense games.

Ost Armies really need forward retreats and Ostheer/Wehrmacht needs a repair upgrade for the bunker or something like that.

They, unlike the Soviets, do not have nearly enough repair options.

Soviets can get self-repair for their vehicles, their conscripts to get repair capabilities or repair posts through doctrine while the Wehr/Ostheer can only use their pioneers to repair and that's about it.

I think one thing I'd like to say vaguely in general is keep CoH2 interesting, please keep units powerful potent and exciting. Through striving for better and better balance this can sometimes be something we've lost sight of at times, sometimes it seems we're always seeking to make things less powerful. Let's make things cool and powerful, but cost a lot accordingly where possible. Sorry for being so vague just like to comment that where I can, so we don't lose site of the flavours of CoH2.

60muni for 1 self repair. No movement no shooting for like 1 min.
One must be an idiot to repair with infantry since its better to have additional CE.

And further range, self spotting, HE barrage, and is cheaper. I don't think it's fair nerfing the stugs pen so it can't pen heavies and not do the same for the SU76.

It has 400 hp, no armor, and does 120 damage. Stugs can destroy medium tanks in 4 shots and it's decent armor can bounce occasionally. Also, how is TWP useless now? Absolute penetration and making a tank combat ineffective for five seconds is extremely useful. Getting three shotted compared to four is quite a difference. With the readjustment to the Panther the Stug has a more defined role of medium tank killer similar to the SU - 76 which lower damage and penetration makes it more of soft counter to Heavies compared to the SU - 85.

The intention for the damage was to point the Panther towards killing heavier vehicles and anything not 640-based, not its counters such as tank destroyers unless it's flanking or slugging it out at shorter-range. Units like the T-34/85, Comet and E8 will now get killed in 4 shots vs 5. IS-2s require 6 from 7.

Furthermore, its upped damage makes it more lethal to light tanks which it now two shots, and units like M10s will get 3 shotted from 4. So facing multiple SU-76s, you can send a Panther in to clear them out, especially with the changes.

So what you are describing is that the panther will be better against all allied callin tanks. T485s, e8s, m10s, is2s, isus.

I get that theres a drive to combat relying on callins but a damage boost on panthers doesn't do much for the unit in terms of being able to get crucial shots on wounded and flanked tanks. And by that I mean having reliable accuracy. 200 damage shots just makes a stock unit counter a plethora of doctrinal units better without addressing it's inability to properly counter any enemy unit as it's accuracy is unreliable.

And not having to tech for bp4 for it too?

Wow, you nerf everything on Osteer. This sucks/

T34 Fuel Increase - Is 15 MP worth 10 Fuel? Seems like more of a nerf than anything since I don't think T34 timing is currently much of a problem from what I've seen.

T34 price increase would be better if it included a small buff to short-range pen.

I think one thing I'd like to say vaguely in general is keep CoH2 interesting, please keep units powerful potent and exciting. Through striving for better and better balance this can sometimes be something we've lost sight of at times, sometimes it seems we're always seeking to make things less powerful. Let's make things cool and powerful, but cost a lot accordingly where possible. Sorry for being so vague just like to comment that where I can, so we don't lose site of the flavours of CoH2.

yup matt does made a point tho. gotta admit sometime i miss how lethal vCOH was and still hope to see COH2 as lethal as the old one while remain balance at a same time and dont punish player like 3-5 second after contract with old bofor or flak emplacement

but some part of my mind thought that in their hands there will be no tone down to the ground like relic did with flak emplacement ,old T-34 or over buff like they did with partisan

TWP (all variants) could use some QoL changes to make them easier to use. e.g., activate the ability and then you can fire one and only shot with it, but you have a longer time window to do so.

We can't release all features at once, because it takes time to develop some of them!

Well, thinking less QoL and just i dunno, replacing it on the StuG. But fair enough, those things do take time and my apologies if i sounded like i didn't quite respect that. Just feels like that at this point you might as well give the StuG something else, Heat Rounds, Smoke rounds, suppressive MG fire, barrage or something else entirely. Was sort of more what i was aiming at here.

A thought on pgrens mark target, how well will it improve the accuracy of moving p4s and panthers. If it's significant, it would promote nice unit synergy.

What is the change for Ju87 Anti Tank Loiter?

You're already a high-ranked OST-only player; you should already have the answer to how powerful the Stug will scale to the late-game, despite the changes. Especially in-light of the mega-buffs to the Ostwind.

If you can't figure that answer out for yourself, play some allies for a change for inspiration; especially USF and Soviets.

Why are you arguing my player card all of a sudden? I feel like you are trying to shut down dialogue by claiming my opinions (yes I said opinions I know I can be wrong) are biased or irrelevant. I just started playing this game again after not playing for 9 months. Naturally I wanted to play my favorite faction(s) again first. No I've been out of country for the last three weeks so I haven't had time to play all the other factions again since getting back (I've played ten days in the last 9 months).In case your interested, my favorite factions (balance aside) are Ost Brits soviets okw/USF. Aka, I enjoy combined arms more than anything. The reason I defend ostheer is because A) they're my favorite faction (and imo most balanced and best designed) and B) I don't think the balance team plays ostheer teamgames enough to balance it so (just looking at the balance team player cards). It's hard when someone make changes on something that doesn't concern them and don't have experience with. Fair?

Regarding this post, I'm just pointing out this inconsistency is all. Stug is and has been for the last number of years, ostheers answer to tank destroyers and heavy tanks (especially high HP Croc and Churchill) and it already dies to 3TD shots meaning ost struggles a vs allied AT. Seeing nerfs to twp and stug (the answer to Croc or FF) is a big deal since ost relies on their tanks more than any other faction for any form of aggression. Ill have to test out the panther to see how well it takes over the AT department so we'll see. #believe
I hope what I've said sounds fair.

v2 update:

JU87 loiter (already present in v1, but not announced)
- Autocannon damage reduced from 60 to 40
- No longer causes criticals on vehicles (doesn’t affect CAS commander strafe)

Infantry awareness (222/251 vet1 ability)
- Changed hotkey from N to E (so as not to collide with handbrake)

Elefant
- HE barrage is now a fast-moving projectile that moves in a straight line and pierces all targets
- HE Barrage now has 70 range
- HE Barrage reload time per shot increased from 4.5-5 to 5.5-6.5 (fires 6 shots)

Target Weak point (affects Pak40, Pak43, Stug-G, Puma, but not Stug-E)

Added some QoL changes to make the ability more convenient to use.

Mode of operation (all variants)
- Turned into a timed ability
- The ability lasts for 12 seconds, or until the first shot is fired (regardless of whether the shots connects)
- Activating the ability activates a forced-reload sequence
- For most variants, the TWP shot deals guarantees penetration on hit, but deals half damage
- TWP causes the blind critical (lose sight / disable weapons) for 5 seconds
- Recharge time increased from 30 to 50

Pak40
- TWP cancels without refund if Pak40 relocates during the ability
- Cost increased from 30 to 35
- Additionally reduces rotation rate by 70% and speed by 60% (8 seconds)

Pak43
Similar to Pak40 TWP with the following exceptions:
- Deals full damage
- Maintains its vehicle-stun crit
- Also affects OKW variant

Vehicle TWP (Stug, Puma)
- The vehicle can relocate at will while TWP is active


Zis barrage
- Increase recharge time to 50 secs
- Reverted damage from 100 to 80

Panzer tactician
- Cost reduced from 30MU to 25MU
- Smoke duration increased from 8 seconds to 15 seconds (after the initial delay)

AI partisans
- Fixed an issue where it was not possible to purchase upgrade in enemy territory

AT partisans
- Reduced time it takes to upgrade panzerschreck from 30 secs to 20 secs

Stormtroopers
- STG purchase time reduced from 45 secs to 40 secs
- G43/Panzerschreck purchase time reduced from 30/45 secs to 25 secs

Molotovs
- Vet2 aim time increased from 0.625 to 0.875

ISU Concrete shot
- Added some aim time to the concrete shot to prevent double-tap abuse
-Fixed some graphical glitches with respect to the direction of the gun when HE shots were active
- Reduced turret traverse rate to normal attack rate
- Cost reduced from 70MU to 60MU

222
- Autocannon no longer deforms the ground (craters)
- This will prevent 222 autocannon from diminishing coaxial MG DPS

Assault Guards
- Reverted assault guards model to the caped-model version

Soviet FHQ
- Cost further reduced to 250MP 30FU

Tiger Ace
- Penalties reduced from -25%MP -90% (forever) FU to -20% MP -50% FU for 8 minutes