Eastern Front Armies Revamp

Well considering everybody is talking about infantry, I jumped into using the
big beasts.

The tiger 1 and IS2 are more dominant in a good way. They seem to be able to hold their own against almost all armour units all the way up to the super heavies (considering most units have 800 or less health).

The elefant. I found the he barrage funny considering its using the ballistic shots (thought it would be like the jagtigers) still very useful considering it can go through world objects (can it support team and mortor pits, yay). Mediums with 640 health take 3 shots while the rest stay the same can go both ways, can iver come back and bite you on the ass or vet the ele even further. Overall I think its fine.

ISU. This guy is just weird. While I find it almost comical that the turret elevates significantly, it fires ballistic shots (what has been said). One problem, the travel time of these rounds do allow reaction time which means a: infantry can move (I think its slower than the kv2 rounds) and B: light vehicles can dodge way to easily as well as catching some KV2 limp dick syndrome.

The ISU concrete round is excellent now, worth a dam (the animation firing the concrete round while toggled in he mode is quite funky) but overall, I dont think its worth it with the he rounds changed.

The kv2 still limp dick rounds when on any elevation like a slant or cliff (or firing at something that is) but the vet one tear down is nice.

Kv1 is an improvement overall, like it.

Conscripts are awesome and demos are actually decent.

Panther I think should have more accuracy over damage, I believe the damage is a bit much especially the amount it delivers after reaching vet 2 (the rof buff).

P.s ISU is still 20 pop cap.

I just tried out the new Guards Infantry for the Land Lease Doctrine and... Hahahahahahaha! They are hilariously fun to use with full Thompsons equipped, running and gunning with their Halftrack and reinforcing Infantry while doing it. Though I'm a little concerned that they might be overpowered with that combo. They are far better at using Thompsons than the Yanks, thanks to better mobility.

Though I really don't like their new look. It's rather Bare compared to the rest of the Soviet Infantry. The Cloak is what makes them cool! Too bad there's no artists on the team to give them Ammo Pouches, Grenade Belts or Backpacks to make them stand out more.

I just tried out the new Guards Infantry for the Land Lease Doctrine and... Hahahahahahaha! They are hilariously fun to use with full Thompsons equipped, running and gunning with their Halftrack and reinforcing Infantry while doing it. Though I'm a little concerned that they might be overpowered with that combo. They are far better at using Thompsons than the Yanks, thanks to better mobility.

Though I really don't like their new look. It's rather Bare compared to the rest of the Soviet Infantry. The Cloak is what makes them cool! Too bad there's no artists on the team to give them Ammo Pouches, Grenade Belts or Backpacks to make them stand out more.

I agree, they are pretty ugly, I like the idea of changing skins, need quality skins, but only Reliс can add high-quality skins

That won´t fix the Panther. Currently for most medium tanks it needs 4 shots (4 x 160 = 640).

Now it will still require the same amount of shots (3 x 200 = 600 = Not enough to finish mediums). I know you want to keep it performing the same as it currently is versus medium tanks... but its horrible performance versus mediums is what makes it currently shit in the first place.

Thus the 40 more damage are a pseudo buff without real effect in most cases.

The nerfed veterancy is a huge nerf. Vet2 was the only savign grace the Panther had. Now even weaker.

Still useless versus infantry.

Now with even weirder stats compared to the OKW Panther causing more confusion.

Add in the StuG nerf and we have an even shittier Ostheer faction. nerfed PAK and nerfed Brummbär... how is that even going to make T4 attractive or keep Ostheer potent in the lategame?

Doesn´t convince me.

First of all, thank you for still trying to make the game more balanced. I am not an expert but I think most of the changes are good.
Just out of curiosity, who is still in the balance team besides you Miragefla and Mr. Smith?

Thanks in advance!

Elefant
The changes to the Elefant will make it somewhat less efficient at countering medium armour (i.e., the Elefant’s intended counter). To compensate, and also give the Elefant (and its doctrines) more luster for 1v1 use we are increasing the AI and AT utility of the Elefant in other means.


-Now gains access to an HE barrage. The barrage can penetrate all world objects and fires with a small 20-degree arc

This more a historical than a balance comment. The elephant was using a high velocity gun and luck the elevation to fire barrages, thus a HE explosive barrage seems very unrealistic.

On the other hand the 88s (not sure if anyone tried with Elephant)where used in an AI Role but differently. Since the where AA munition with a timer to create AA barrage walls the same munition was used versus soft targets. The trick was to aim above the intended target and have the shell explode above it.

So one could implement a version of the UKF air-bust shells for the Elephant and it will a bit more realistic and unique.

That won´t fix the Panther. Currently for most medium tanks it needs 4 shots (4 x 160 = 640).

Now it will still require the same amount of shots (3 x 200 = 600 = Not enough to finish mediums). I know you want to keep it performing the same as it currently is versus medium tanks... but its horrible performance versus mediums is what makes it currently shit in the first place.

Thus the 40 more damage are a pseudo buff without real effect in most cases.

The nerfed veterancy is a huge nerf. Vet2 was the only savign grace the Panther had. Now even weaker.

Still useless versus infantry.

Now with even weirder stats compared to the OKW Panther causing more confusion.

Add in the StuG nerf and we have an even shittier Ostheer faction. nerfed PAK and nerfed Brummbär... how is that even going to make T4 attractive or keep Ostheer potent in the lategame?

Doesn´t convince me.

Don't look at it only in a vacuum, tanks aren't alone on the battle field. Panther will be able to finish damaged tanks more often with less risk.
With the nerf of panther counterparts, it is a good tank now

First. Soviets have too many indirect weapons. Mortars,zis, su-76, artillery and so on. Wehrmacht in comparison has none. Where is balance?
Second. Give part commanders from Wehrmacht to OKW, no need too invent something.

PTRS (all variants)
We find that the long aim-time of the PTRS prevents it from performing its intended anti-vehicle role adequately. We are somewhat reducing the aiming time, while reducing deflection damage (to avoid unwanted side-effects).

-Ready aim time reduced from 2 to 1.25
-Deflection damage reduced from 20 to 15
-Cost reduced from 30MU to 25MU

No sure how this has been implemented but all PTRS should share similar properties (with the nerf in accuracy of conscripts), Similar curves similar deflection damage similar DPS vs infantry.

To solve any issues with units using the PTRS (e.i. Penal)simply change their weapons (even if only when upgraded). A units with PTRS and PPsh would be performing good in it role.

Guards Troops
We find the current version of Guards underwhelming. Part of the reason for this is that they are forced to carry PTRS rifles. With these changes, we aim to give players an active choice as to whether they want to specialise their squad for AI or AT; or dabble in-between.

Guards PTRS are restored to their pre-WBP versions (with faster aim time), since Guards can only have up to 2 slot items.

-Cost reduced to 320MP
-Mosin nagant moving accuracy from 0.75 to 0.6
-Spawn with no guns and can purchase up to two items (40MU per DP-28, 25MU per PTRS)
-Drop-rate for weapons upped from 0.1 to 0.33
-PTRS damage vs infantry restored from 20 to 27 (does not affect Penals)
-Grenade cost from 35MU to 30MU

Guards Hit the Dirt (Vet1 ability):
The purpose of the new Vet ability is to allow the squad to provide long-range firepower, especially with their PTRS rifles.

-Hit the dirt that only gives -25% cooldown bonuses (to help deploy firepower)
-Increases range by +2.5 (to avoid being picked off one by one)

The price is simply to high compared to Penals. This is unit that requires CP 2 yet it costs more than Penals although the SVT is better weapon than Guards mosin.

Lower price to 300.

In addition make "hit the ground" a timed ability not a toggle one it will be much easier to balance. Allow it to be broken with a move order. Maybe add some MU cost.

Finally break button into 2 separated affects vision/disable weapon can not be broken and a slow that can be broken as currently in live.

Change the vet bonus penetration since it will not of any use to lmg Guards.

1) Guards:
They're good but there is no point in ptrs upgrade since you can have penals with superior svt with lower cost.
2) ZiS:
I think you should make smaller steps overall to not over- buff, nerf units. Price reduce is fine but barrage buff is not needed (at least for now).
3) ISU/KV2:
Main issue is they're very RNG dependant due to shit accuracy (if scatter max distance is accuracy). Brummbar has 2.5 (in mod 2.8) while KV2 and ISU have 7.4 and 8.4 respectively.
4) Panther:
It needs accuracy buff much more then damage.
5) Brummbar:
Again, smaller steps. 50 pen is too low.
6) Elefant:
Don't think it needs barrage.
PS su85 pathing

Are there plans to standardize the friendly fire values? I still think it is quite silly that Allied units can tank their own artillery and indirect fire like it is nothing and Axis meanwhile die to their own stuff pretty much reliably.

FHQ imo is really not worth it any more it needs some kind of aura, them losing all aura power is huge fail. a stuka, pwerfer, nades mortors keep smashing me when i pick this doctrine, idk this needs another look big time. and isu HE are to slow even when i use attack ground the whole game i cant get kills like i used to. it was better to me the other way this was a nerf. booby trap should be reverted but make cost 120 muni. b4 needs 400 dmg per round instead of 320.

We need a top lv player on the balance team. No decent coh2 player would say adding a delay to ost tac smoke is smart.

So without trying it and just looking at it. I'd say that overall this looks pretty positive. There are some odder changes, like the Tiger Ace one. But overall, looks good

Though there are some points where i might change things

For example the guardsmen, they are going to overlap a bit more with shock troopers now with them both being AI troops, so something more with the guardsmen might be an idea. Maybe an AT package with AT rifles and At grenades or even looted Panzerfausts or something.

The Panzergrenadier mark target is nice, but i think would make more sense if it affected infantry rather than vehicles, because a 1.2 acc bonus isn't quite worth it there, whereas with infantry would give some room for them supporting the tanks better creating room for co-operation there and also just giving more incentive for good flanks.

Similarly with the StuGs, you nerf the Target weakpoint and the bigger question is, well why keep at it this stage ? It's been so singularly nerfed the question is, why not just replace it with something else ? Heat rounds, a suppressive fire ability for the Pintle MG, grenades.. Plenty of options there. And perhaps revamp it's vet 2 while at it since currently it does not amount to much, perhaps a slightly better armour bonus.

Same with the Panther, removing the armour bonus at vet 3 leaving it only with health.. I dunno, seems a kinda unimpressive vet 3 then. Maybe give it the ability to lob grenades about there as well. Just a thought anyways.

But overall, i like a lot of the ideas and i do think they help give the armies a bit more room and options which is definitely needed. Especially for the wehrmacht.

Also maybe give the Regular halftrack a suppressive ability instead of a track infantry ability for vet 1. Have it rendered useless by flamethrower halftrack of course

But overall, a good step in a right direction and it has my support.

Really a good selection of changes.

The con changes seem to be odd to some degree. If someone could take some time to elaborate them further, I'd appreciate it.

Conscripts
Allow Conscripts to scale well with their upgrades
Slot items
Receive accuracy penalty of -43%
This affects all slot items, including PPSH and PTRS



PPSH:
from 0.621/0.43/0.2 to 0.947646/0.65618/0.3052 (affected by a 43% accuracy penalty)

PTRS:
Guards PTRS (affected by a 43% accuracy penalty)

Veterancy
Vet0: Conscripts receive a passive -43% accuracy penalty on equiped slot items)
Vet1: Added a Received Accuracy modifier of 0.92 (new)
Vet2: Molotov range replaced with Molotov thrown speed
Vet3: Reduced Received accuracy modifier modifier from 0.6 to 0.707
Vet3: Added an accuracy modifier 1.15 (new)

Molotovs
Vet2 changed from throw range to throw time reduction (guards-grenade-level)
Cost per throw increased to 20MU

Oorah
Cost increased from 10MU to 15MU (to counteract Molotov/Conscript buffs)

Doesn't the -43% to accuracy of all slot items (including ppshs) go against the intended goal of making cons scale well with their upgrades (since ppshs and ptrs are con upgrades in most cases)? To some degree the loss in accuracy for ppshs is counteracted by the increased accuracy of the ppsh, however, it does not fully bridge this gap in effect nerfing the ppsh (~9% at close)(vet 3 restores it to the old values). Is here the rationale that the remaining mosins restore the former performance levels?

Which change does help cons to scale with their upgrades (molotovs and at nades or are here weapon upgrades meant?)?

It strikes me as odd that vet 2 now trades range for speed (which is fine) but the increased throw speed, which is tied to vet 2, warrants a price increase for both molotovs and oorah even though the molotov upgrade and the molotov itself remain unchanged. What was the rationale here? I can understand trading range for faster throwing, but the increase in both costs means in many cases one will be spending 40 munition for a molotov which still has a slow projectile speed, slow throw animation (before vet 2) and low impact damage. The overall effect decreases the attractiveness of molotovs, since they're objectively worse for their cost before vet 2.
The molotov has 3 distinct weaknesses (disregarding the teching cost):
1) slow throwing animation
2) slow projectile speed, pretty sure it's the slowest out there
3) low impact damage

Oorah also sees it's cost increased. Was there any con-cern ( ) that cons would overperform with it remaining the same price? If so, I can see why this was done.

Someone tell me how I'm supposed to hunt down tanks with my tank destroyer that misses a lot on the move as well as the atrocious reload time? Oh now it's unable to spot for itself without a delay

Are there plans to standardize the friendly fire values? I still think it is quite silly that Allied units can tank their own artillery and indirect fire like it is nothing and Axis meanwhile die to their own stuff pretty much reliably.

+1, totally agree. Dumb feature

is there anyway to post this revamp on the main menu page cuz no one plays it, i been waiting for like 30 mins and searched for the game and no one joins or cares about this revamp. smith? can u see if they can post it plz im trying to test the hell out of this

zis gun from 60 to 35 munition for barrage? And its buffed after that? Thats a double buff... noway, that means you will always get 2 zis gun and double barrage infantry to the dust. Imagine teamgames with 4-5 zis guns and just watching the lols as the other half of the map literally disintergrates.

Damage on the barrage is fine as it is and if you want to make it cheaper 50 munitions is already not expensive for soviets because they are not a munition based faction.