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Guards price

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Judge73
14 May 2017, 07:03 AM
#1
avatar of Judge73

Posts: 10

Isn't 360 mp a bit too much? I mean they are ptrs gren squad performance-wise (Tested them against lmg grens). It just feels like both soviet elite inf squads are overpriced.
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Crecer13
14 May 2017, 07:26 AM
#2
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Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

I think we need to remove the DP + PTRS from the Guard and make them more specialized:
6 people come out only with rifles have two improvements
- 2 DP-27 - make them ranged specialists
- 2 Bazooka (ability hit to vulnerable places, more damage, more crit chance)
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Judge73
14 May 2017, 08:02 AM
#3
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Posts: 10

jump backJump back to quoted post14 May 2017, 07:26 AMCrecer13
I think we need to remove the DP + PTRS from the Guard and make them more specialized:
6 people come out only with rifles have two improvements
- 2 DP-27 - make them ranged specialists
- 2 Bazooka (ability hit to vulnerable places, more damage, more crit chance)


2 mosins instead of ptrs won't change much. 2 zooks on 360 mp squad is a waste. Only problem i see is price.
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Crecer13
14 May 2017, 08:24 AM
#4
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post14 May 2017, 08:02 AMJudge73


2 mosins instead of ptrs won't change much. 2 zooks on 360 mp squad is a waste. Only problem i see is price.


More specialized with price adjustment of course
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Dangerous-Cloth
14 May 2017, 08:37 AM
#5
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Posts: 2066

For their current performance they are overpriced. I would think 320 to 340 would do them more justice.
Kappa
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Mr.Smith
14 May 2017, 08:44 AM
#6
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Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

The trick with guards is that PTRS is dragging their performance down. If you can, somehow, get rid of the PTRS from the squad, you can melt enemy squads at range. If you can't, well, you get bled.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions

Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
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Judge73
14 May 2017, 12:56 PM
#7
avatar of Judge73

Posts: 10

jump backJump back to quoted post14 May 2017, 08:44 AMMr.Smith
The trick with guards is that PTRS is dragging their performance down. If you can, somehow, get rid of the PTRS from the squad, you can melt enemy squads at range. If you can't, well, you get bled.

Most of their dps comes from double dp. I don't think 2 mosins make such huge difference. They don't bleed if you merge (they 28 mp like grens). It's just 360 mp is kinda too much.
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Mr.Smith
14 May 2017, 13:46 PM
#8
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Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post14 May 2017, 12:56 PMJudge73

Most of their dps comes from double dp. I don't think 2 mosins make such huge difference. They don't bleed if you merge (they 28 mp like grens). It's just 360 mp is kinda too much.


The mosins make some difference, but not a lot of it. The difference that PTRS does is that it displaces your DP-28's (or vice versa), making your DPS completely inconsistent. This is a severe condition also known as Tommy-thumbs.

Without PTRS rifles, double DP guards can beat Grenadiers roundly and firmly. With PTRS rifles, this becomes a derby, and Guards might end up being outbled.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions

Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
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capiqua
14 May 2017, 14:15 PM
#9
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Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 985 | Subs: 2

If it happens in two squads (Guards, Tommys), maybe it happens in more
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ZombiFrancis
14 May 2017, 14:18 PM
#10
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Posts: 2742

Switch DP-28s for PTRS on Guards.
PTRS require purchase instead.

Guards become a solid AI force. Might even be worth the excessive costs.

Guards can't be panic-PTRS in the same way as before, which was a the real culprit of the squad.

To take it further, Switch SVTs and Mosins on Penals and Guards respectively.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
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Vipper
14 May 2017, 15:27 PM
#11
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

There is another solution.

Move Guards to T1, lower Price to 300 make PRTS an upgrade remove DP.

Make Penal replace Guards in doctrines give them the DP upgrade and button lower the DPS of the SVT to prepatch level or replace SVT with Mosin.
:)
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ZombiFrancis
14 May 2017, 16:38 PM
#12
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post14 May 2017, 15:27 PMVipper
There is another solution.

Move Guards to T1, lower Price to 300 make PRTS an upgrade remove DP.

Make Penal replace Guards in doctrines give them the DP upgrade and button lower the DPS of the SVT to prepatch level or replace SVT with Mosin.


Hey I've fought for the switching of Penals and Guards for years now. Built a mod to demonstrate its viability too.

Would've worked well way back after the first time Penals were buffed.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
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Mr.Smith
14 May 2017, 23:14 PM
#13
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post14 May 2017, 14:18 PMZombiFrancis
Switch DP-28s for PTRS on Guards.
PTRS require purchase instead.

Guards become a solid AI force. Might even be worth the excessive costs.


Your suggestion does make sense in that it would allow Guards to keep some of their "elite"-ness (by not being gimped by forced PTRS), and also their uniqueness (by being the only squad capable of picking up 4 weapons and becoming generalists)

What I'm concerned about is that if you start with 2 DPs, skip PTRS (which aren't that fantastic), and manage to pick up other LMGs from the ground, you might get a terminator squad.

You could offset that by making Guards 3-slot units and making PTRS worth worth 0.5 slots. However, even with 3 DPs, Guards become really, really scary.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions

Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
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Clerv
14 May 2017, 23:21 PM
#14
avatar of Clerv

Posts: 50

Hey guys,

I pretty much only use guards if I know i have good garrison and need to use PTRS to fire at luchs. Otherwise guards get shredded out in the open.

Thoughts?
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heroicservant
14 May 2017, 23:34 PM
#15
avatar of heroicservant

Posts: 34

Giving guards dp 28s stock without upgrade would be insane. It would be obers with free lmg all over agin. Removing ptrs might be an option.
Playercard of PVT Pyle

1v1: Pstreak: + 2
1v1: Pstreak: + 2
1v1: Pstreak: + 3
1v1: Pstreak: - 3



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Chocoboknight88
14 May 2017, 23:52 PM
#16
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 393

I think giving "Oorah" to Guards might solve some problems too. Think about it. Most of the Guard's weapons need them to be stationary before they can use them. Allowing Guards to get into position more quickly would let them be more useful.

Until then, I recommend using them inside an M5 Halftrack for flanking and support purposes.
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Chocoboknight88
15 May 2017, 01:07 AM
#18
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Posts: 393

Heeey... Don't confuse this with an MMO. :P
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kitekaze
15 May 2017, 11:11 AM
#19
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Posts: 378

jump backJump back to quoted post14 May 2017, 08:44 AMMr.Smith
The trick with guards is that PTRS is dragging their performance down. If you can, somehow, get rid of the PTRS from the squad, you can melt enemy squads at range. If you can't, well, you get bled.


I should say that the Guard role is not cleared right now. Is it AT or AI unit?
AT is worse and outperformed by Penal (cheaper, more utility)/AT Partisan(convenience, more utility).
AI is as you said.

I think Soviet have too much AI infantry (Conscript, Non-upgrade Penal, Shock,...), Guard should be removed from AI role and concentrated on AT role.

At start, replacing two PTRS with two bazookas is good idea (And remove DP-28 upgrade). I would want to see what would happen first if such change happened.
Tired of Ostheer? Try Kampfgruppen Lehr mod.

Revival of Panzer Elite in Company of Heroes 2.
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Antemurale
15 May 2017, 12:46 PM
#20
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Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951

I'd say that the Guards nerf as too heavy-handed, thus they are not cost-effective anymore.

My solution? Revert PTRS damage vs Infantry to 27, revert received accuracy buffs applied through veterancy. In my opinion, the cost increase and the grenade nerf are enough to put Guards in the right spot.
NON VOS TURBATIS
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