Penals op

you had more than 8 month to give your point of view on penal, now it's too late.

Many players here, me included was giving the backup that PTRS Penals are a problem. Yet we were downright ignored.

Don't get me wrong, The game is much better since the last two patches, but in this particular case, the patch team was deadset to introdue their PTRS Penal child, no matter what community was saying.

Yes, it is true that new penals are more balanced than old ones.
But there still have way to high AI infantry DPS with their anti-vehicle upgrade.

I don't like the trend of giving the mainline infantry AT options so generously.

You guys always whine about blobbing, I can see many threads about that here on forums. Yet, the only factions that can actually blob now are Allied factions, since their infantry is better in doing the job which should be solved by specialized support weapons.

Volk Shreck blob is no more, and eventhough Volks are still a potent unit they cannot be used to counter armor like their allied counterpart.

Same goes for Wehr, grens cant be blobbed since they will be rotflstomped by a single tank.

Axis factions has a dedicated infantry AT platforms, while Americans can get potent AT weapon on every single infantry, same as UKF (to a lesser degree though, since PIATs are not as stron as bazookas)

Now SU has joined the club, maybe to a lesser degree, but light vehicle play is against competent SU player is non existant. Using 222 against Penals is downright useless (even without upgrade, they tend to push it up while standing in yellow cover) And once they reach the 2nd vet, the can tackle basicly everything that is on the battlefiled.

Recently I've been trying to counter the penals with pzgrens in urban maps, and guess what, my two 3-star pz grens fought three 2 star penal units on medium range and was forced to retreat while killing like 2-3 models of penals.

IMO, if the penals will retain their AT option, they should have their AI potency heavily nerfed. See PZ grens as a example. They are expensive, elites unit dedicated for medium/close range combat. Buing shrek package rendes them almost useless against infantry, but makes them dedicated tank hunters.

The same treatment should be implemented for penals.

Allies faction turned into noob infantery-spam since all allie faction have a infantery which is spamable and good vs all.

yesterday a 3 blobb IS killed my ostwind in the first shot from piats...no skill need...and ostwind should be anti-spamer unit??

why in the hell can IS get 2 weopan upgrades? they shred german infantery in secounds...


relic should nerf the strong allie inftery since they get super-anti-options and armor from german tanks was nerfed hard

Just close this thread.

I really dont get the allusion that ptrs = shreks. One is burst damage and the other is effectively DOT as far as AT weapons go.

Hand held rocket do more damage but are inaccurate.

AT rifles do less damage but do it consistently.

I really dont get the allusion that ptrs = shreks. One is burst damage and the other is effectively DOT as far as AT weapons go.

nobody are saying they are.

PTRS package is much cheaper, and yes, they are not problem for medium and heavy vehicles. The real offender are AT satchels. In big, multiple fronts engagements it requires a godly amount attention to your vehicles, since a single successfull AT satchel is basicly a death sentence for any vehicle up to Pz4 included.

I've played numerous times against the competent soviet players and every single time he tired to fish for satchel with one of his penal squads. and since even wehr struggles to contain those even with MG 42s and infantry play, countering those with lights and mediums is extremely frustrating.

The flowchart looks like that:

Is it a light/medium vehicle? if it is close try to satchel charge it for basicly an insta-kill (or very close to it). If you see enemy is microing them away go to cover for few seconds, pepper them with PTRS. Once the vehicle stopped moving, try to close in again to blow it up since opponents attention is probably elsewhere. Continue ad nauseum. the cost of failed attempts is usually 1-2 penal models, since 222, pz4, flaktrack and ostwind cant target for shit while being forced to relocate. To add insult to the injury, PTRS Penals can easily win gren and pzgren engagements, while still posing a significant threat to armour. Don't even tell me about every single poor vehicle that eat a mine on a frontline, it is a basicly a death sentence if penals are around.

Of course now im gonne hear the "git gud" argument since I apparently don't micro my vehicles enough. I am just saying that if you have to look every 5 seconds at your light or medium vehicle while fighting infantry which is not dedicated AT squad, there is something wrong about it. Hell, even pz grens with shrecks are more predictable, since their shreck volly at least will be shown on the vehicle tooltip/hp while you are dealing with something on the other side of the map, so you know what the hell is going on. with Penals its full hp vehicle firing at infantry, the next second its dead or on 1/5 hp with damaged engine, which in most cases means its probably dead in a moment.

Once again. You want your AT satchel shenanigans, fine you can have it, but for gods sake, make PTRS penals on par with shreck PZ grens in terms anti-infantry, so you can succesfully protect your vehicles with infantry play.

nobody are saying they are.

PTRS package is much cheaper, and yes, they are not problem for medium and heavy vehicles. The real offender are AT satchels. In big, multiple fronts engagements it requires a godly amount attention to your vehicles, since a single successfull AT satchel is basicly a death sentence for any vehicle up to Pz4 included.

I've played numerous times against the competent soviet players and every single time he tired to fish for satchel with one of his penal squads. and since even wehr struggles to contain those even with MG 42s and infantry play, countering those with lights and mediums is extremely frustrating.

The flowchart looks like that:

Is it a light/medium vehicle? if it is close try to satchel charge it for basicly an insta-kill (or very close to it). If you see enemy is microing them away go to cover for few seconds, pepper them with PTRS. Once the vehicle stopped moving, try to close in again to blow it up since opponents attention is probably elsewhere. Continue ad nauseum. the cost of failed attempts is usually 1-2 penal models, since 222, pz4, flaktrack and ostwind cant target for shit while being forced to relocate. To add insult to the injury, PTRS Penals can easily win gren and pzgren engagements, while still posing a significant threat to armour. Don't even tell me about every single poor vehicle that eat a mine on a frontline, it is a basicly a death sentence if penals are around.

Of course now im gonne hear the "git gud" argument since I apparently don't micro my vehicles enough. I am just saying that if you have to look every 5 seconds at your light or medium vehicle while fighting infantry which is not dedicated AT squad, there is something wrong about it. Hell, even pz grens with shrecks are more predictable, since their shreck volly at least will be shown on the vehicle tooltip/hp while you are dealing with something on the other side of the map, so you know what the hell is going on. with Penals its full hp vehicle firing at infantry, the next second its dead or on 1/5 hp with damaged engine, which in most cases means its probably dead in a moment.

Once again. You want your AT satchel shenanigans, fine you can have it, but for gods sake, make PTRS penals on par with shreck PZ grens in terms anti-infantry, so you can succesfully protect your vehicles with infantry play.

I think that the AT aspect of the satchel could certainly afford to be tied to the AT package in the HQ to help with the speed tech+AI+AT that the new penals bring to the table, but i do disagree with your assesment of the penals so easily countering lights/mediums. While certainly strong, they have a nasty aim time (the ptrs), which is why the AT satchel is so important, else you could just circle/push the tits off them without having any fear at all because burst damage is nonexistant, i think the problem is that the axis vehcles AI is too low. Like, i would like to see what the 222 would be like if the upgrade was reintroduced but have the mg34 hitting like a t34 hull gun to provide mobile oomph that the ost so desperately need.

I think that the AT aspect of the satchel could certainly afford to be tied to the AT package in the HQ to help with the speed tech+AI+AT that the new penals bring to the table, but i do disagree with your assesment of the penals so easily countering lights/mediums. While certainly strong, they have a nasty aim time (the ptrs), which is why the AT satchel is so important, else you could just circle/push the tits off them without having any fear at all because burst damage is nonexistant, i think the problem is that the axis vehcles AI is too low. Like, i would like to see what the 222 would be like if the upgrade was reintroduced but have the mg34 hitting like a t34 hull gun to provide mobile oomph that the ost so desperately need.

I have no idea why suddenly everyone thinks that Penals "shouldn't be punished" by circle-pushing by light and mediums.

Do sturm pioneers have a snare option, while possesing an AT weapon, or even Pz grens with shrecks, a dedicated tank hunters squads? You want a snare, get a mainline infantry like everyone else (sorry brits )

Why the hell everyone thinks that penals should be able to repel vehicle rush? Are sturm pioneers should be able to do the same? No. Both of those units have soft AV option to keep vehicles from harrasing them without any consequences. But if you want to really punish vehicles, get a fucking at gun or in case of soviet T1 play, field an ealier SU 76 or t70. T1 in soviets was always about early infantry domination and now, with the PTRS upgrades you are able to hold your own against lights in T1, which would be fair IF those PTRS package was what it supposed to be: a soft AT counter, without actually being spammable upgrade that:
1. locks down light vehicle play for wehr (once enemy has 3+ squads of those (oh and im sure he will get them)
2.makes infantry skirmishes trobulesome as well since Penals do not lose their AI potency

3.makes any vehicle sprearhead very risky since resilent, 6 man squads with rambo like demo charges will be waiting to bum-rush any advancing german tank who would like to finish off retreating soviet vehicles.




I've said this in the Winter patch preview and I'll say it again. you cant, as Soviet in T1 have elite, superior infantry in the opening, faster tanks avaliability AND hard AT. its like having a cookie and eating it at the same time.

I have no idea why suddenly everyone thinks that Penals "shouldn't be punished" by circle-pushing by light and mediums.

Do sturm pioneers have a snare option, while possesing an AT weapon, or even Pz grens with shrecks, a dedicated tank hunters squads? You want a snare, get a mainline infantry like everyone else (sorry brits )

Why the hell everyone thinks that penals should be able to repel vehicle rush? Are sturm pioneers should be able to do the same? No. Both of those units have soft AV option to keep vehicles from harrasing them without any consequences. But if you want to really punish vehicles, get a fucking at gun or in case of soviet T1 play, field an ealier SU 76 or t70. T1 in soviets was always about early infantry domination and now, with the PTRS upgrades you are able to hold your own against lights in T1, which would be fair IF those PTRS package was what it supposed to be: a soft AT counter, without actually being spammable upgrade that:
1. locks down light vehicle play for wehr (once enemy has 3+ squads of those (oh and im sure he will get them)
2.makes infantry skirmishes trobulesome as well since Penals do not lose their AI potency

3.makes any vehicle sprearhead very risky since resilent, 6 man squads with rambo like demo charges will be waiting to bum-rush any advancing german tank who would like to finish off retreating soviet vehicles.




I've said this in the Winter patch preview and I'll say it again. you cant, as Soviet in T1 have elite, superior infantry in the opening, faster tanks avaliability AND hard AT. its like having a cookie and eating it at the same time.

It is because shreck is a threat to any kind of vehicles but ptrs isnt except for light.

It is because shreck is a threat to any kind of vehicles but ptrs isnt except for light.

Shreck upgrade guts unit's AI potency, is held on much less numerous, fragile squads which are expensive and impossible to spam, While PTRS is held on 6 man squads which can take severe beating and still preform great in infantry skirmishes, which is why we see them in numbers 3+. have you ever seen Pz grens or Strum pios in those numbers? Now try to ask yourself why.

PTRS are threat to any vehicle that stay in range. The have nearly 100% chance to hit most vehicles up to range 40 and their deflection damage got buffed.

I have no idea why suddenly everyone thinks that Penals "shouldn't be punished" by circle-pushing by light and mediums.

Do sturm pioneers have a snare option, while possesing an AT weapon, or even Pz grens with shrecks, a dedicated tank hunters squads? You want a snare, get a mainline infantry like everyone else (sorry brits )

Why the hell everyone thinks that penals should be able to repel vehicle rush? Are sturm pioneers should be able to do the same? No. Both of those units have soft AV option to keep vehicles from harrasing them without any consequences. But if you want to really punish vehicles, get a fucking at gun or in case of soviet T1 play, field an ealier SU 76 or t70. T1 in soviets was always about early infantry domination and now, with the PTRS upgrades you are able to hold your own against lights in T1, which would be fair IF those PTRS package was what it supposed to be: a soft AT counter, without actually being spammable upgrade that:
1. locks down light vehicle play for wehr (once enemy has 3+ squads of those (oh and im sure he will get them)
2.makes infantry skirmishes trobulesome as well since Penals do not lose their AI potency

3.makes any vehicle sprearhead very risky since resilent, 6 man squads with rambo like demo charges will be waiting to bum-rush any advancing german tank who would like to finish off retreating soviet vehicles.




I've said this in the Winter patch preview and I'll say it again. you cant, as Soviet in T1 have elite, superior infantry in the opening, faster tanks avaliability AND hard AT. its like having a cookie and eating it at the same time.

The ptrs =/= the shrek, thats why. The shrek can pop a shot in an instant and deal 120 damage, that alone deters pushing a shrek. Due to the aim time of the ptrs and the lower damage output PER SHOT they are susceptible to pushing more than any other AT. I preferred the 3 AT rifle package @90mu direction as it was a different way to deliver the ~the same performance as other similar AT investments, but slowly chipping vs ripping out chunks of health and greatly reducing the AI (the package put them on par with unupgraded grens, which given the price and slow delivery of AT damage was imo acceptable. Upgunned grens beat them handily)

They beat volks and grens 1v1, but you get more troops. However, they may be a little too overwhelming at the start of the game before you can get upgrades. So they beat your infantry, then you cannot hard counter them with light vehicles because they can switch to at.

I would give the ptrs to cons, but hoorah cannot be used with heavy ptrs rifles. You should have to use both cons and penals together, not spam either of them. Cons desperately need their moltovs fixed, but not in a way that makes them volks 2.0.

Im sure if cons didnt suck at everything they do people WOULD mix them in. Literally the history of the soviet in this game is "abuse this because my mainline is so bad if i dont i have no chance at victory"

If cons had a roll to play, that would be nice. I think the Ptrs fits them so well. Spam them and get wrecked vs infantry. Combine them with penals or mgs, and they have a dedicated purpose.

maybe punish their AI ability by replacing three of their SVT's with PTRS', not two, but giving them the same average AT damage output. The sticky satchel then gets unlocked by this AT upgrade, meaning you have to sacrifice the AI to get the uber-snare of almost certain death.

They beat volks and grens 1v1, but you get more troops. However, they may be a little too overwhelming at the start of the game before you can get upgrades. So they beat your infantry, then you cannot hard counter them with light vehicles because they can switch to at.

I would give the ptrs to cons, but hoorah cannot be used with heavy ptrs rifles. You should have to use both cons and penals together, not spam either of them. Cons desperately need their moltovs fixed, but not in a way that makes them volks 2.0.

Then what do you suppose is done about the anti-tank doctrine PTRS upgrade for cons which would then become sort of pointless?

Penals allow even mediocre players to compete with better players. They are extremely durable, win head-to-head engagments even when not in cover, can win early 1v2 engagements, blow up OKW hqs without problems, etc. I would rather see maxim spam again, since maxims didnt destroy/steal team weapons, easily kill every OKW hq and at some point you lost them, but Penals remain too strong even into the late game. For 300mp I would take this unit every day, just replace them with Ost grens and no one would cry. The best solution would be to buff the maxim slightly so it is not a piece of crap but then nerf the penals. So sick of seeing them EVERY game and just rofl stomping everything.

just replace them with Ost grens and no one would cry. The best solution would be to buff the maxim slightly so it is not a piece of crap but then nerf the penals. So sick of seeing them EVERY game and just rofl stomping everything.

I am no expert, but this is the general feeling I get.
I am just concerned that current consensus is "hmm, everyone is building penals as mainline inf, there must be something wrong with conscripts. Conscripts need buffs"

I'll never understand the cost argument for OP units.

By that logic, an invincible unit that kills one model per shot is fine as long as it costs 1,000 manpower...