Penals op

Soviet are bad, but penals are crazy op now, wtf?

Resisting to mines, ripping all infantry, win red cover vs obers yellow, soo what hell???? With old rifles winning vs lmg and sgt44 ez... soo crap lol

edit: is penal a brit unit in the wrong faction???

that why they cost 300mp

that why they cost 300mp

You mean thats why SU get to spam bunch of them and use like rifleman then own you at mid game until they spam Shermans and rip your dignity away from you?
Expect this meta in every GCS game.

ahhh... i expected this thread

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that why they cost 300mp

And pgrens 340

Penal far DPS is simply to high and get even worse with veterancy. In addition they get AT snare and AT weapon with very low tech cost.

The whole current Soviet infantry design is actually bad.

Imo there an number of way redesign it:
1) The offensive/defensive infantry
Penals become a reversed Osttruppen infantry, cheap, offensive with "ourah" "Molotov" and probably "merge".
Conscript become a defensive infantry with a normal grenade becoming more accurate with timed vet 1 ability when in cover.

This way there is room for both stock units to work and for elite infantry.

2)If PTRS is deemed necessary in T1 Guards are swapped in T1 and lose their DP upgrade while Penal become doctrinal with a DP upgrade and button. Conscripts can still get a timed vet ability the increase accuracy when in cover.

Penal far DPS is simply to high and get even worse with veterancy. In addition they get AT snare and AT weapon with very low tech cost.

The whole current Soviet infantry design is actually bad.

Imo there an number of way redesign it:
1) The offensive/defensive infantry
Penals become a reversed Osttruppen infantry, cheap, offensive with "ourah" "Molotov" and probably "merge".
Conscript become a defensive infantry with a normal grenade becoming more accurate with timed vet 1 ability when in cover.

This way there is room for both stock units to work and for elite infantry.

2)If PTRS is deemed necessary in T1 Guards are swapped in T1 and lose their DP upgrade while Penal become doctrinal with a DP upgrade and button. Conscripts can still get a timed vet ability the increase accuracy when in cover.

As stated above, I a pretty sure the Mod Team would have chosen a different path if they were allowed to balance conscripts and some other things, but scope. They worked with what they could.

As stated above, I a pretty sure the Mod Team would have chosen a different path if they were allowed to balance conscripts and some other things, but scope. They worked with what they could.

Well the problem with that is that when Conscripts get into scope Penal will not be the scope...

I have to point out here that I am not blaming the mod team.

It is simple, a re-balance all infantry available before minute 1 is needed.

Penal far DPS is simply to high and get even worse with veterancy. In addition they get AT snare and AT weapon with very low tech cost.

Penals have high dps because of their more specialized role, tier requirement, high initial cost and their lack of AI weapon upgrades which also prevents them from having crazy DPS by concentrating firepower in a single model like LMGs. The AT satchel is more of an emergency weapon unless you're attacking heavies while the PTRS is a PTRS; meant as a soft counter/deterrent. They lack the proper snares of other front-line units who are cheaper and arrive sooner, cannot build anything such as cover, or the ability to sprint/rush out of HMG arcs. The majority of the time when they are built, they have one role, kill the other side's infantry and serve as premium AI units for a faction that has only one other line infantry unit non-doctrinally that also serves a different purpose.

Yes, they are very good at their role, but they have no grenades unless it's garrison-busting which is a double edge sword as you likely can't use the garrison afterwards, give up map control via building and cost which you must use brute force to take back, and early Penals means no T2 support until later as you really need to build from that tier to make the most of it early game.

Even if Conscripts got their buffs and changes, Penals are still going to be more about damage dealing and killing stuff, though Cons might be more reliable rather than being RNG cannons with their 16 damage but crap accuracy.

It's too arbitrary comment to say: because of the scope. In fact, the balance brain team was obsessed with panels from day 1! While I appreciate the effort to bring new meta to SU gameplay but two wrongs doesn't make right.

OKW now forced to place!? truck before getting MG to deal with Penal spam and by the time (which is the most important resource in COH series) you get to bring your MG and setup a good place you already lost %70 of the map control.

Almost every map is already Allied favor ( which is ok) but when a single goddamn penal is able to stop kubel and volks even when in disadvantage situations. Why would SU even bother to flank or do maneuver?

P2 damage output is very low to control the crowd. No SU player even worry about their opponent gets p2 cuz penals can out DPS It almost always.

Even when you kill a bunch of penals in early game SU never affected by It. It's not that high as you think. I was very hyped with GCS and I have no problems players using the most cheesy meta ever created by mod team cuz there is big money on the line but It's going to be boring as hell to watch this strat game after game.

Penal just a good unit on background the completely Soviet overnerfed units, it's all.

Penals have high dps because of their more specialized role, tier requirement, high initial cost and their lack of AI weapon upgrades which also prevents them from having crazy DPS by concentrating firepower in a single model like LMGs. The AT satchel is more of an emergency weapon unless you're attacking heavies while the PTRS is a PTRS; meant as a soft counter/deterrent. They lack the proper snares of other front-line units who are cheaper and arrive sooner, cannot build anything such as cover, or the ability to sprint/rush out of HMG arcs. The majority of the time when they are built, they have one role, kill the other side's infantry and serve as premium AI units for a faction that has only one other line infantry unit non-doctrinally that also serves a different purpose.

Yes, they are very good at their role, but they have no grenades unless it's garrison-busting which is a double edge sword as you likely can't use the garrison afterwards, give up map control via building and cost which you must use brute force to take back, and early Penals means no T2 support until later as you really need to build from that tier to make the most of it early game.

Even if Conscripts got their buffs and changes, Penals are still going to be more about damage dealing and killing stuff, though Cons might be more reliable rather than being RNG cannons with their 16 damage but crap accuracy.

QFT

/thread, why is this person constantly complaining about soviets? L2p ffs adapt

Penals have high dps because of their more specialized role, tier requirement, high initial cost and their lack of AI weapon upgrades which also prevents them from having crazy DPS by concentrating firepower in a single model like LMGs. The AT satchel is more of an emergency weapon unless you're attacking heavies while the PTRS is a PTRS; meant as a soft counter/deterrent. They lack the proper snares of other front-line units who are cheaper and arrive sooner, cannot build anything such as cover, or the ability to sprint/rush out of HMG arcs. The majority of the time when they are built, they have one role, kill the other side's infantry and serve as premium AI units for a faction that has only one other line infantry unit non-doctrinally that also serves a different purpose.

The units is hardly specialized (can fight most enemy units at any range). Its tier cost is very low (see PG/Obers). Initial cost is not that high (see PG/Obers) and neither is reinforcement cost (see also "merge"). The lack of AI weapon does not mean much since other units luck such upgrade like PGs or have expensive ones that do not make them that do not give them so much "area" in DPS curve (see stormtroopers, actually Penal would work allot better if they started with less punch and had a weapon upgrade (not an lmg in 6 men squad).

Penal are unit using WFA designed in an EFA faction. Unit has too much firepower for the time frame it appears and is too flexible. It can fight long range unit at long range and mid close units at mid to close ranges.

Yes, they are very good at their role, but they have no grenades unless it's garrison-busting which is a double edge sword as you likely can't use the garrison afterwards, give up map control via building and cost which you must use brute force to take back, and early Penals means no T2 support until later as you really need to build from that tier to make the most of it early game.

Well again it the WFA armies that need to be toned to EFA level and the EFA that need WFA units. Soviet have by design lots doctrinal option if one want to buff stock units one should limit doctrinal availability.

Even if Conscripts got their buffs and changes, Penals are still going to be more about damage dealing and killing stuff, though Cons might be more reliable rather than being RNG cannons with their 16 damage but crap accuracy.

As long as Penals remain still strong they will compete with doctrinal Soviet call-in units and either Penal or Doctrinal elite units will see little action.

In order to have diversity each units need to bring something different to table.

I am not trying to be critical here about the decision that have been made, I am simply trying to point out the problems with the current direction.
Again congratulation to the mod team for their hard work.

Well the problem with that is that when Conscripts get into scope Penal will not be the scope...

I have to point out here that I am not blaming the mod team.

It is simply to re-balance all infantry available before minute 1.

The balance between the starting infantry is quite bad while conscripts and grens are fine. But grens will lose out vs penals at pretty much all ranges. Same with conscripts vs volks. Cons will generally lose vs volks especially with the STG upgrade. Riflemen are generally better then grens but grens will still generally win at long range. Infantry section are straight up better grens.

Another problem is starting units. First off, in my gripe list, is T0 MGs. It is a little too potent. Either a faction can deal with it or not. USF got the mortar to deal with MG 42s but MG 42s were there to allow Ostheer to fight infantry because they do not have T0 infantry and back then pios were much weaker. Personally I believe Brits have trouble with garrisons also because their two answers are not ideal. Mortar pits can be a bit too far off in cost and tech positioning to actually deal with garrisons, but when they are set up they create hell to deal with. This is why I would not mind seeing a garrison mobile mortar. This will help deal with structures while tackling the mortar pit issue. The brit other answer is the Universal carrier with flamer, but do to the potency of Fausts and other snares the Universal carrier, 251 halftrack, and other light vehicles. The penal snares are bit more balanced than you think. It is a skill shot and has very short range. If other snares had a shorter ranges then their. Additionally another problem with both the mortar pit and carrier is the fact there is no T0 engineers. Carrier needs repairs, well use a munition ability that you would rather not use. Hence why mobile assualt is very popular in order to get flamers on your royal engineers.

Another problem is starting units. Primarily I am looking at OKW, UKF, and Soviets. A rushing squad of Infantry Section and Sturmpioneers is hard to deal with as Soviet or Ostheer. Soviets are just out classed and Ostheer has build T1 or rely on less desirable doctrines to have any early field presence.


In short and in spoilers this is how I would tackle other problems first then penals. Fix some other things a penals may fit in. Centralized teching costs and starting assets whether it be starting units or resources. Everyone usually complain about how imbalance the late game is but for me, the late game may become more balanced if the early game was balance.


All
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Soviets
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Ostheer
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USF
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OKW
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UKF
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Sorry if this was a bit off topic but by averaging out the factions and there can be a bit more balance between them.

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OKW now forced to place!? truck before getting MG to deal with Penal spam and by the time (which is the most important resource in COH series) you get to bring your MG and setup a good place you already lost %70 of the map control.

fixyour head man if yo7 lose map to penal opening.

fixyour head man if yo7 lose map to penal opening.

Are you having a seizure?
I've yet to see a pro player says It's defendable meta then I'll admit I wasnt creative enough to find solutions to this: mid game domination with penal spam then securing with Sherman spam.

All snares would have their range reduced to around 20ish from 30 for their range is slightly over-performing when fight early light vehicles

ability range is 20 not 30.

You seem to agree with me that:
"It is simple, a re-balance all infantry available before minute 1 is needed."

It's too arbitrary comment to say: because of the scope. In fact, the balance brain team was obsessed with panels from day 1! While I appreciate the effort to bring new meta to SU gameplay but two wrongs doesn't make right.

OKW now forced to place!? truck before getting MG to deal with Penal spam and by the time (which is the most important resource in COH series) you get to bring your MG and setup a good place you already lost %70 of the map control.

Almost every map is already Allied favor ( which is ok) but when a single goddamn penal is able to stop kubel and volks even when in disadvantage situations. Why would SU even bother to flank or do maneuver?

P2 damage output is very low to control the crowd. No SU player even worry about their opponent gets p2 cuz penals can out DPS It almost always.

Even when you kill a bunch of penals in early game SU never affected by It. It's not that high as you think. I was very hyped with GCS and I have no problems players using the most cheesy meta ever created by mod team cuz there is big money on the line but It's going to be boring as hell to watch this strat game after game.

First of all, problem are with penals synergy, penals + dshk + shermans. Maybe penals + kv-1, penals + t2 + kv-8 and is-2.
Do you see penals plays without callins ? Coz to tech need many MP and fuel, and you mid game with be low (i mean with penals, i dont talk that tech have hight price, its okey).'
Penals are expancive infatry for soviet, when soviet player have a lot penals, OKW have better map control and better early game. To hold penals OKW have AA HT and luchs with mg, combine its with infatry and its will be okey.
I think some maps are allies, some axis nad some are neutral, dont forget about sides on maps.
Why you must attack penals with PTRS with luchs ? Its like stuart ot t-70 must attack PG shrek squad .

Soviet are bad, but penals are crazy op now, wtf?

Resisting to mines, ripping all infantry, win red cover vs obers yellow, soo what hell???? With old rifles winning vs lmg and sgt44 ez... soo crap lol

edit: is penal a brit unit in the wrong faction???

you had more than 8 month to give your point of view on penal, now it's too late.

I like Ægion's suggestions