It'was our last game, i'm so sad.

I knew someone had to come up with this and tell us about the great and mighty Centaur. Let me enlight you about the actual purpose of the Centaur.

If it's not being chased down by vet hungry Stugs or Püppchen, it is spending it's time being repaired so you don't lose it when the enemy starts the next hunt on it. You might as well put a big sign on it: "Go after me! I'm free vet!"

Same for Ostwind, but Centaur at least kills something, before it is down. ^^

How do they have stronger tank destroyers? Do you prefer a SU-85 vet3 or Firefly vet3 over a JP4 vet5? I don't.
Tank destroyers destroy tanks, not infantry - they are not the spearhead of an assault. They can only avert the power of tanks from their allies. How is that going to help the infantry if it's already overwhelmed by the enemy's infantry?

How are the allied mediums outclassing the axis mediums? What are you refering to? I don't know about you, but my favourite medium tank from the 640hp class is the OKW P4. That thing is a nightmare for the allies once he reaches vet4(granted he survives).

And how can you just call those heavy tank destroyers a design flaw? Are we now supposed to ignore them and act like they do not exist? How is your opinion helpful to form a consent?

Oh and btw, it's not like "allies" have mark target - there are 3 precisely 3 commanders from the Soviet faction that can use it. I might as well refer to "axis" having stuka bombs whenever anyone complains about op "allied" infantry.

This x 100

Some maps like Red Ball are really difficult for allies to win once the JT's and Elefant's are on the field. There are no allied counters to them. The only way to win that game late was Calliope's and bazooka blobs.

How do they have stronger tank destroyers? Do you prefer a SU-85 vet3 or Firefly vet3 over a JP4 vet5? I don't.
Tank destroyers destroy tanks, not infantry - they are not the spearhead of an assault. They can only avert the power of tanks from their allies. How is that going to help the infantry if it's already overwhelmed by the enemy's infantry?

How are the allied mediums outclassing the axis mediums? What are you refering to? I don't know about you, but my favourite medium tank from the 640hp class is the OKW P4. That thing is a nightmare for the allies once he reaches vet4(granted he survives).

And how can you just call those heavy tank destroyers a design flaw? Are we now supposed to ignore them and act like they do not exist? How is your opinion helpful to form a consent?

Oh and btw, it's not like "allies" have mark target - there are 3 precisely 3 commanders from the Soviet faction that can use it. I might as well refer to "axis" having stuka bombs whenever anyone complains about op "allied" infantry.

Try getting a JP4 to vet 5. I see far more vet 3 FFs and SU85s than JP4s.

Allied infantry is not being obliterated by axis atm. Allied players have gotten used to 9 months of Penals and rifles obliterating anything in their path and charging through open ground against axis infantry and winning.

Any allied medium out classes the p4 at vet 0. OKW is supposidly based on keeping your units alive to get to vet 5 to be effective, but how can you achieve higher vet when allied tanks come sooner and are more effective for lower price. T34 series annihilate infantry ATM and T34/85s are fantastic spammable tanks that can deal with almost any threat. Cromwells and comets are self explanitory. The sherman is actually a pretty decent tank, it's just overshadowed by the t34s and cromwells.

Heavy tank destroyers are a massive flaw in design. How is it fair that axis can have an 85 range Tiger that can 2 shot mediums with higher armor than a KT? When the JT is supported correctly its near impossible to defeat on specific maps. The game would run much better and would require more skill if it just relied on 60 range tank destroyers.

Yes, you can say "allies have mark target" any top soviet player not only will bring a mark target commander to bring down heavies, but they're also on some of the most meta commanders. Guard motor for example. It's like saying brits don't have any form of indirect. While they don't in their stock army because the mortar pit is just a gimmick, the landmattress is picked up easily 50%+ of all games because that commander fills all of british flaws.

^ This

People aren't asking for "perfect" balance for 4v4's. They just want asking for some of the most heavily-offending bullshit to be nerfed, so that games can have some variety.

Just like nerfing call-ins is so "obvious" for 1v1s to improve commander diversity, nerfing the Heavy offenders is equally "obvious". Both limit commander choices/playstyles for the respective modes.

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197966069137
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197970790508

You need to rage less and play more games as axis.

How are the allied mediums outclassing the axis mediums? What are you refering to? I don't know about you, but my favourite medium tank from the 640hp class is the OKW P4. That thing is a nightmare for the allies once he reaches vet4(granted he survives).

Shermans, Cromwells, T3485s. They are far better than the one you are afraid of. Since you only play allies you should know better.

And how can you just call those heavy tank destroyers a design flaw? Are we now supposed to ignore them and act like they do not exist? How is your opinion helpful to form a consent?

We aren't game designers and furthermore this game has passed the design phase. It is what it is.

If any reason, logic of compassion fails, always aim under the belt by attacking the player-card of the best modmaker that CoH2.org has ever seen.

*epic face-palm*

vet4-5 obers ofc needs a nerf, but at the same time vert4,5 needs to be more easily attainable for them.

jagd, ele and 152 are just dumb design but how would you nerf them? i think the best thing right now is to drastically raise their pop cap to decrease army size so those heavy tanks can get outnumbered

They used to be upper 20's in pop cap before that was lowered to "encourage the use of heavy tanks". I don't remember the exact words but it was something like that in the patch notes. I don't remember if this was done at the same time as limiting them to one.

The pop cap should be raised into the 30's on those TD's (at least the Ele and JT), and you shouldn't be able to bring in a second if you lose it. The fuel price is also much too low.

If any reason, logic of compassion fails, always aim under the belt by attacking the player-card of the best modmaker that CoH2.org has ever seen.

*epic face-palm*

Rule #1; Sucking up won't get you anywhere in this world other than losing your self respect (and that respect of the others too)

I don't know, 4v4 is stupid, but even in 2v2, which I just started playing again at my normal "upper intermediate" level, seems way, way easier with OKW...

It seems like little things like the Raketen actually being able to track targets are really making a difference.

+ to RedT3rror posts.

I do not know what happened. After the last patch, the game moved to a new era of spam. The game turned into a giant blob on both sides

VoltarDark [QC] Your team plays too much Axis. You should quit millenium ago.

After a day of watching this of going up and down - though all of the balance discussions...and then the trolling; it was a real roller coaster.

Now though, now it's locked.