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Airborne company

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Cafo
30 Mar 2017, 20:21 PM
#21
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Posts: 245

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Mar 2017, 03:17 AMelchino7
Rocket strafe doesn't need to much of a buff, just make it so it doesn't miss as much. Their tracking is based on movement, just like T-Rexes. If you are not a Tiger, JT or KT, they won't hit you if you stay still.

About things i would like to see with Airborne:

-NOT sure if it would be OP or not, but try with 0 CP Pathfinders. Make them start with cooldown if too early. It's been to long since i used it but IIRC radios are 0 muni and low cd. This could be tweaked if 0CP is "too strong".

-Both MG and AT gun shouldn't cost mp and be changed to muni. Just like with the UK commander.



Idk about that, I've used rocket strike on tigers while getting repaired.. they scratch the tank and kill the engineers with splash damage lol...not worth 240 muni though.

0cp pathfinders wouldn't change much of anything, if anything it's a testament to how mediocre the unit is (ehh fuck it make it 0cp) lol

And the muni for drops idea sounds okay but when is USF not short on muni? There's pretty much always a squad that can be armed up at that point in the game.. rocket strike should be buffed for usf late game.

As somebody said in here compare this to the The JU-87 loiter, it's a joke.. and usf could use it as well lacking good AT for late game, it would make the commander come full circle.

With heavy cav you get Pershing late game, armor company gives you m10s. USF commanders revolve around helping the late game.
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GhostTX
30 Mar 2017, 21:34 PM
#22
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Posts: 315

No one plays Airborne because it's too weak and too expensive. As it's been already said, the P47 strafe is pathetic and expensive. It's nerf killed the only good thing left about Airborne. Axis gets a better strafe, more damage and cheaper muni. The P47 should be a late game heavy punch to fight the Axis Heavy tanks.

CoH1, as already said, Airborne has a specific supporting and AT role. You could skip T2 and T3 because the paras had AT and you could drop in the AT & HMG guns. In CoH2, paras are a buffed rifleman that come in too late, IMO, as well as the AT & HMG to make a real difference. The only decent thing are the BAR-rific pathfinders, but at the current CP, takes a while to field to force early game presence.

Airborne needs to be reworked. I like the CP suggestion in the thread from Esxile.
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Outsider_Sidaroth
30 Mar 2017, 21:55 PM
#23
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Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Some very neat suggestions here!

Personally I'd like to see the drops be available early and both cost munitions, also some substantial cost reduction for the P47s... It's kinda cool that is such a Casino ability like the RNG bombs, but to go with the "Allies had air superiority", it should be very cheap so you can use it very often to support your units on the ground, you know the whole "flavour" of the Commander?

Paras are fine and are easily the best thing in the commander, with their awesome upgrades and useful abilities linked to them, but making them CP2 wouldn't hurt...
Pathfinders in the other hand really need something to justify them, I feel they need less cost more than 0 CP because as US you will always want Rifles anyway and you would support them with Airborne infantry, that way they could be scouts and used to crew weapons without making you feel as manpower starved as US can be.
I really like them, they are a cool unit, but they need a cost reduction as badly as the P47 rocket strafe does.
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Angrade (Ægion)
30 Mar 2017, 22:48 PM
#24
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One problem with Pathfinders is that their received accuracy is 1. Changing it to .91 like grenadiers would go a long way. Additionally reducing their reinforcement costs to 30 from 32 to once again match grenadiers will be good also. All I am saying is minor changes is needed for pathfinders. The weapon drops could cost munitions to help reduce the manpower draw from 4 manpower costs to 2. Personally I think almost all loiters are overpowered, especially the JU 87. I would not mind seeing it into a single strafe or make built AA units, other than the OKW HQ, more slightly more effective or changed from RNG to timed and damage.
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Grumpy
31 Mar 2017, 04:32 AM
#25
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Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Mar 2017, 07:31 AMEsxile
....

CP00 Pathfinder. Sniper shot only available after T1 or T2 is up.
CP01 HMG.50
CP01 Atgun
CP02 Paratroop. I don't know if them would make it OP or not.
CP12 Bombing run. Replace the rockets by canon shot to match other AT strafing effectiveness.
...


This would be good. Maybe give Pathfinders the ability to lay mines and demos.

CP12 - No, just replace this with a cut-and-paste copy of the Stuka Loiter. Call it a P51 loiter. If it's not OP for Ost then it should be fine for USF also.
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Outsider_Sidaroth
31 Mar 2017, 04:43 AM
#26
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jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2017, 04:32 AMGrumpy


This would be good. Maybe give Pathfinders the ability to lay mines and demos.

CP12 - No, just replace this with a cut-and-paste copy of the Stuka Loiter. Call it a P51 loiter. If it's not OP for Ost then it should be fine for USF also.


Have you seen what the Stuka Loiter does to Heavies?
Trust me, they would bitch about it, that's what got the P47 nerfed in the 1st place.
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Grumpy
31 Mar 2017, 05:02 AM
#27
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Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Mar 2017, 22:48 PMAngrade (Ægion)
One problem with Pathfinders is that their received accuracy is 1. Changing it to .91 like grenadiers would go a long way. Additionally reducing their reinforcement costs to 30 from 32 to once again match grenadiers will be good also. All I am saying is minor changes is needed for pathfinders. The weapon drops could cost munitions to help reduce the manpower draw from 4 manpower costs to 2. Personally I think almost all loiters are overpowered, especially the JU 87. I would not mind seeing it into a single strafe or make built AA units, other than the OKW HQ, more slightly more effective or changed from RNG to timed and damage.


This also
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Waegukin
31 Mar 2017, 05:09 AM
#28
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Posts: 609

One of the more interesting ways to make P47s worth their salt would be to buff their accuracy a bit and have them inflict debuffs on their targets, kind of like Brit Tac Support artillery without being batshit OP.

Ideally, CAS would get a similar treatment, but with a damage nerf, making it a budget version, so to speak.
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Grumpy
31 Mar 2017, 05:21 AM
#29
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Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2017, 04:43 AMOutsider_Sidaroth


Have you seen what the Stuka Loiter does to Heavies?
Trust me, they would bitch about it, that's what got the P47 nerfed in the 1st place.


I normally play USF so I normally see what it does to mediums. In testing, if I put drop the ability on five Shermans, it will reliably kill four of them. It costs 200 munitions so that must be fair.

It's bugged in that it will start tracking something inside the circle and still attack it when it leaves. I found out the hard way once when I retreated a Sherman back to my ambulance and lost it, the ambulance, and my major. Fun stuff.

Rather than complain, I just started using it myself. I got a couple of tanks that way last night. One of the players had spammed DShK's into M4C's so he kinda deserved it.
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__deleted__
31 Mar 2017, 08:26 AM
#30
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Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Give weapons teams manned by the paratroopers ability to reinforce near bacons as well
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Vipper
31 Mar 2017, 09:22 AM
#31
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Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Because Pathefinder have Camo ,cost the same to reinforce, can equip rack weapons, JLRI pay a premium for spawning and are higher CP.

JLRI vs Pathfinder are balanced.

The unit is fine maybe pop down to 7, all it need is faster reinforcement time as many 4 men elite infantry (reinforcement time needs to separated from enforcement cost).
:)
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Grumpy
31 Mar 2017, 13:08 PM
#32
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Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2017, 09:22 AMVipper
Because Pathefinder have Camo ,cost the same to reinforce, can equip rack weapons, JLRI pay a premium for spawning and are higher CP.

JLRI vs Pathfinder are balanced.

The unit is fine maybe pop down to 7, all it need is faster reinforcement time as many 4 men elite infantry (reinforcement time needs to separated from enforcement cost).


JLI wipe Pathfinders with 2-3 models left every time. The "premium" is 20 mp (280 vs 300) and 1 cp vs 2 cp is not that big. I'd use Pathfinders much more often if they were a copy of JLI's. JLI vs Pathfinder is anything but balanced.
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Vipper
31 Mar 2017, 13:54 PM
#33
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jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2017, 13:08 PMGrumpy


JLI wipe Pathfinders with 2-3 models left every time. The "premium" is 20 mp (280 vs 300) and 1 cp vs 2 cp is not that big. I'd use Pathfinders much more often if they were a copy of JLI's. JLI vs Pathfinder is anything but balanced.


Maybe I was not clear enough, I did not claim that JLIRS are balanced fighting Pathfinder but that are both unit of equal value. I was simply responding to a claim that JLIRS is far superior unit to Pathfinders. They are not.


The fact that JLIRS will beat Pathfinders is not a indication of the units overall performance they same way that a maxim will beat hmg-42 does not make a maxim a unit of higher value.
:)
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aomsinzana
31 Mar 2017, 14:00 PM
#34
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Posts: 284 | Subs: 1

if they become 0 CP
- make it cannot grab weapons from weapons racks
- replace two M1 carbine with other weapons or add snipe ability like campaign mode
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Mr.Smith
31 Mar 2017, 14:07 PM
#35
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Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

It's a bit difficult to have enough screentime for 3 specialist AI-only units (Pathfinders, Thompson Paras and LMG Paras) that offer zero AT utility, when the faction already has access to the best mainline infantry, and they have no AI issues to begin with.

Recon Company's vision of Pathinders as a utility unit seems more coherent than a "hey, let's strap another AI only unit in the roster" implementation of Airborne. Given that beacons are Paratrooper's main feature, it should be more affordable to field a Pathfinder & Paratrooper mixed army.

For Paratroopers, the simplest change I would make is allow Paratrooper-equipped support weapons to reinforce near beacons.

Pathfinders just need to be cheaper scout units, and provide the utility necessary to complement Paratroopers. I don't know:
- Smoke artillery callins?
- Allow Paratroopers to retreat to Pathfinders (in friendly territory only)?
- Lay mines? (or let Airborne paras also lay mines?)
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions

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Vipper
31 Mar 2017, 14:11 PM
#36
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Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2017, 14:07 PMMr.Smith


Or simply nerf riflemen so that USF elite units have a reason to exist.

Or make USF able to be promoted R.E.->Riflemen->elite (Paratroopers,Rangers and officers)

Continuing to buff unit to make them more attractive is not the way to go.
:)
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Outsider_Sidaroth
31 Mar 2017, 14:45 PM
#37
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Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Reinforcing Para team weapons near beacons?
Pathfinders that can lay down mines?
Damn I like the sound of those two.
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Cafo
31 Mar 2017, 14:55 PM
#38
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Posts: 245

Guys even if pathfinders or paras or mg/AT gun callins got buffed it still doesn't address the issue with the doctrine, USF does not need help early game unless you gave pathfinders a muni dependent sniper shot for dealing with snipers.

The issue is why would you ever take this over calliope or a Pershing or easy 8, USF has troubles late game, Rocket strike needs to be balanced for the commander to be viable, it's simply terrible. If it even just mimicked a JU-87 loiter it would be perfect.
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ShadowLinkX37
31 Mar 2017, 15:00 PM
#39
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IMO it should be slightly more powerful than the JU87 loiter given its cost. The JU87 needs to be toned down though.
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Grumpy
31 Mar 2017, 19:31 PM
#40
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Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2017, 13:54 PMVipper


Maybe I was not clear enough, I did not claim that JLIRS are balanced fighting Pathfinder but that are both unit of equal value. I was simply responding to a claim that JLIRS is far superior unit to Pathfinders. They are not.


The fact that JLIRS will beat Pathfinders is not a indication of the units overall performance they same way that a maxim will beat hmg-42 does not make a maxim a unit of higher value.


So you are trying to say that infiltration and much better combat stats are completely offset by beacons? Players often use JLI because they're good and cost effective. Pathfinder's reinforce cost and popcap is too high for what they do. They are used about as much as the Greyhound, and for similar reasons.
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