Graphical design suggestion about Penals

This design suggestion is suggestion, which requires to add new portraits to the game. But will make game a little bit better (i believe in that)!

Some months ago i and Mr.Someguy have a little conversation in QoL thread about penals design. Then we agreed, that this suggestion is not in high priority. BUT, i think it need to be added, because it easy to solve, and it is the only BIG element of stereotypes about Red Army in the multiplayer.

Now, when penals drasticaly changed their role on the field from assault unit with good anti-garrison/anti-building capabilities to good anti-infantry squad with meh anti-tank capabilities, i think they can drasticaly change their face too

Why i suggest it:

1. Now community making patches. IOW this suggestion will reach guys, who make patches.
2. TheMashine in comments under his video about PTRS-41 Penals agreed, that Penals never used as mainline infantry.
3. Penals works like regular infantry squad. As many people mentioned, conscripts is for support, and use them as mainline infantry not the main variant.
4. Red Army doesn't have regular infantry in the tech. Conscripts not a regualry infantry, Guards and Shocktroops are elite infantry.
5. Other factions don't have stereotype units in their teching or doctrines (Maybe except osttruppen).

How this change can be added to the game?

Variant 1:

1. We take model of guards without green coat and give it to "penals". It looks like on the screens below:


2. Rename them in the "Strelky" (Riflemen in russian), or Riflemen, or Regular Infantry Squad.
3. Change their portrait to match with new model.
4. Give them neutral voicelines. Before neutral voicelines, but for tanks, get Soviet Sherman.

Variant 2:

1. We take model of guards without green coat and give it to conscripts.


2. Give model of conscripts to "penals".
3. Rename "penals" in the "Strelky" (Riflemen in russian), or Riflemen, or Regular Infantry Squad.
4. Change portraits of "Strelky" and conscripts to match with new model.
5. Give neutral voicelines to "Strelky".

Design stuff for this change (portraits by Kasarov):

I support this idea. Conscripts have very good equipment like a duffel bag, pouches, helmet and etc.. for a cheap support unit. While penal`s have only a shirt and cap with some pouches,it's not logical and looks stupid.

Impractical to add but decent suggestion:


1. Swap penals and guards into doctrines, guards are in t1 penals are doctrinal
2. Guards come with no weapons, lock weapon upgrades for guards behind t3 built
3. For doctrines that require guards from the name, give them assault guards

Wow I fixed soviet lack of elite infantry, their lack of muni sink, and the ptrs t1 strat. Penals make more sense being doctrinal than guards do anyways.

My bet Penal 'Strelky'

Any change can be changed if it does not interfere with speeches

Just rename the penal in the Rifle squad, change the voice / phrases - this is fine.
Or penal will be upgraded/promoted to Rifle squad - at the level 3 veterancy (redeemed sins) maybe with the change or addition of abilities?

Impractical to add but decent suggestion:


1. Swap penals and guards into doctrines, guards are in t1 penals are doctrinal
2. Guards come with no weapons, lock weapon upgrades for guards behind t3 built
3. For doctrines that require guards from the name, give them assault guards

Wow I fixed soviet lack of elite infantry, their lack of muni sink, and the ptrs t1 strat. Penals make more sense being doctrinal than guards do anyways.

Just rename the penal in the Rifle squad, change the voice / phrases - this is fine.
Or penal will be upgraded/promoted to Rifle squad - at the level 3 veterancy (redeemed sins) maybe with the change or addition of abilities?

Guys, your suggestions are more about balance redesign. My suggestion - only design suggestion, which doesn't touch balance aspect at all.

i expected another dumb salty topic about penals but i'm happily suprised. Love the idea of changing the name. Many people complain that penals cannot look like in WBP becouse there weren't such a versatile formation in ww2. Change the name would shot those comments.

Don't see the reason to switch the portrait though

Well the tread has a bit confusing title maybe change it aesthetics instead of design?

Updated thread name to not confuse readers

i expected another dumb salty topic about penals but i'm happily suprised. Love the idea of changing the name. Many people complain that penals cannot look like in WBP becouse there weren't such a versatile formation in ww2. Change the name would shot those comments.

Don't see the reason to switch the portrait though

Because if Penals will change their name, it will be just penals with other name. I suggest complex change, to make this unit looks like new, not stereotyped unit. With new model (from gamefiles), new name, edited voiceline, and new portrait (to match with new model). But totally without balance or rebalance suggestions. :-)

who cares about the name? just leave it as it is. if you search for historical accuracy in coh you have gone wrong anyways..

who cares about the name?

At least me, and these 8 guys, who said "Yes" in the poll.
Also, we cared about all other co-changes in graphical design, which need to be made with Penals to finally make them as Strelky

I agree with either idea for the Penals -> Strelky and I think the conscripts should get the guards without plaschpalatka uniform and Strelky the conscripts uniform.

COH needs some more WWII historical accuracy

Guys, your suggestions are more about balance redesign. My suggestion - only design suggestion, which doesn't touch balance aspect at all.

I get what you mean and I'd say 'sure, go for it' but at the same time Penal Battalions, commanders with Guards, and Soviet T1/T2 have all have balance and design issues.

That said, when those kind of changes are warranted, I see reskinning or altering the theme of Penal Battalions being entirely appropriate as a part of a solution.

I've felt that straight up swapping Penal Battalions and Guards would work well for the faction.

Rename any commander with 'Guard' to 'NKVD'.

Impractical to add but decent suggestion:


1. Swap penals and guards into doctrines, guards are in t1 penals are doctrinal
2. Guards come with no weapons, lock weapon upgrades for guards behind t3 built
3. For doctrines that require guards from the name, give them assault guards

Wow I fixed soviet lack of elite infantry, their lack of muni sink, and the ptrs t1 strat. Penals make more sense being doctrinal than guards do anyways.

So do the guards from the T1 remain elite infantry with their stats intact? Do they also keep their PTRS but the DP-28s are locked behind T3?

If guards remain elite infantry on T1 you'll run into the exact same problem we just had with penal spam early. Elite infantry out classing axis infantry early because they simply cannot deal with the 6 man squads high DPS. Yes they won't have flamers so that's a plus, but try flushing a guard squad from cover and you'll take heavy losses especially against garrisons if OKW.

If they do not keep the PTRS and it's locked with the DP-28s T1 will be vunerable to light tank rush again.

So do the guards from the T1 remain elite infantry with their stats intact? Do they also keep their PTRS but the DP-28s are locked behind T3?

If guards remain elite infantry on T1 you'll run into the exact same problem we just had with penal spam early. Elite infantry out classing axis infantry early because they simply cannot deal with the 6 man squads high DPS. Yes they won't have flamers so that's a plus, but try flushing a guard squad from cover and you'll take heavy losses especially against garrisons if OKW.

If they do not keep the PTRS and it's locked with the DP-28s T1 will be vunerable to light tank rush again.

I was just spitballing a way to fix the Lelic decision of cramming penal troops into the stock soviet army, which is a bit silly. Obviously they would need their stats adjusted accordingly.

COH needs some more WWII historical accuracy

like t34 76 penetrating KT? lel

I was just spitballing a way to fix the Lelic decision of cramming penal troops into the stock soviet army, which is a bit silly. Obviously they would need their stats adjusted accordingly.

you spitballer you Kappa although the idea is decent. I don't see why they can't just do that with penals.

you spitballer you Kappa although the idea is decent. I don't see why they can't just do that with penals.

The differences between Guards and Penals are now that one has grenades and DP-28s and the other has AT Satchels. Whatever the unit is, these upgrades and abilities have to be juggled around.

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Personally, these days I want Soviets to have a T1 infantry unit using:

Guards Mosin Nagants, or something roughly equivalent.
Have the Guards grenade, unlocked from a grenade package upgrade. Either from a unique upgrade, from a merged molotov/AT nade upgrade, or just unlocked when both molotovs and AT nades are upgraded.
Access to AT Satchels, perhaps unlocked through an upgrade that also unlocks Demo charges.
Can be upgraded with DP-28s. Could possibly be a global fuel based upgrade mimicking vCoH BARs.

I'd like to see a doctrinal unit:
Armed with SVTs.
Can get PTRS.
Gets molotovs and AT nades as conscripts do.
0-2 CPs, depending on if PTRS arrive with squad.

Conscripts need stock PPsH upgrade no matter what the case.