Ostheer infantry scaling

You guys have it backwards, ostheer isn't underperforming certain factions are overperforming.

Look at the soviets vs Ostheer matchup without the OP penals, they are evenly matched. After WBP they will be much better off, USF and especially UKF will probably need some more tweaking.

Here:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=878578557

I spent an evening running through rounds on the map. There were some interesting patterns that I found. I suggest people give it a shot, especially with Janne's Cheat Mod.

Based on my experiences this evening: there is very little consistency in infantry combat battles. There are a few identifiable trends though. Mind you, this is all vet 0 units I'm talking about in 1v1 matchups.

Conscripts are wildly inconsistent but tend to be on the losing end at all ranges. Their battles won are often razor thin.

Rifles tend to win most engagements, but Volks seem to give the most consistent run for their money as long as cover is involved. Rifles seem to lose randomly, but win with 3 members left very consistently.

Penals wreck volks and grens alike. They often don't even lose models. Even in the times they lose models early, they kick into overdrive and wreck the volks and grens even harder.

Tommies pretty reliably lose to volks and grens at close range. They win big at long range.

Grens and Volks alike get wrecked at close quarters, and yellow cover does not seem to be a friend of either. Mid range is very inconsistent for both. Long range is rather inconsistent. The only decisive victorys for Volks and Grens ever seem to be against conscripts.

But something worth noting was this:

CQC battles were over in 20-40 seconds.
Open cover battles over by 1 minute. Yellow cover Penal battles usually all over by this point.
Yellow cover battles over by 1:30-2 minutes. Green cover Penal battles usually all over by this point.
Green cover battles over by 3-4 minutes.

Everyone's assuming the model spacing fix will make things perfect, and yes, it's a HUGE fix (fix, not buff, because this was cancerously incorrect game design, not just lack of balance), but this won't change the inherent problem with four-model squads being unviable due to pure math.

Grenadiers, Obersoldaten, etc. lose their first model INSTANTLY upon engaging ANY threat, including just direct rifle fire, which is a loss of 1/4 damage right off the bat, making the unit useless. All the while AoE weapons are both less common and less reliable, so the same brutality doesn't swing both ways (see: flamethrowers vs five and six model squads).

As such, even if the model spacing fix actually works as intended, it won't be enough.

Everyone's assuming the model spacing fix will make things perfect, and yes, it's a HUGE fix (fix, not buff, because this was cancerously incorrect game design, not just lack of balance), but this won't change the inherent problem with four-model squads being unviable due to pure math.

Grenadiers, Obersoldaten, etc. lose their first model INSTANTLY upon engaging ANY threat, including just direct rifle fire, which is a loss of 1/4 damage right off the bat, making the unit useless. All the while AoE weapons are both less common and less reliable, so the same brutality doesn't swing both ways (see: flamethrowers vs five and six model squads).

As such, even if the model spacing fix actually works as intended, it won't be enough.

There are plenty of planned changes besides spacing last time I checked: All light vehicles, USF mortar, penals, guards. PGrens got a slight buff, so did Pios and Assault Grens. All of that combined has to have some impact at least.

so cowardly, i though so

Don´t go there. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience, it is what I do all the time. Leave it be.

Here:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=878578557

I spent an evening running through rounds on the map. There were some interesting patterns that I found. I suggest people give it a shot, especially with Janne's Cheat Mod.

Based on my experiences this evening: there is very little consistency in infantry combat battles. There are a few identifiable trends though. Mind you, this is all vet 0 units I'm talking about in 1v1 matchups.

Conscripts are wildly inconsistent but tend to be on the losing end at all ranges. Their battles won are often razor thin.

Rifles tend to win most engagements, but Volks seem to give the most consistent run for their money as long as cover is involved. Rifles seem to lose randomly, but win with 3 members left very consistently.

Penals wreck volks and grens alike. They often don't even lose models. Even in the times they lose models early, they kick into overdrive and wreck the volks and grens even harder.

Tommies pretty reliably lose to volks and grens at close range. They win big at long range.

Grens and Volks alike get wrecked at close quarters, and yellow cover does not seem to be a friend of either. Mid range is very inconsistent for both. Long range is rather inconsistent. The only decisive victorys for Volks and Grens ever seem to be against conscripts.

But something worth noting was this:

CQC battles were over in 20-40 seconds.
Open cover battles over by 1 minute. Yellow cover Penal battles usually all over by this point.
Yellow cover battles over by 1:30-2 minutes. Green cover Penal battles usually all over by this point.
Green cover battles over by 3-4 minutes.

Interesting, thanks for those tests!

Flame War mode engaged..........

Invissed three posts. Be civil, it's only the internet.

Flame War mode engaged..........

You're a bit late for that, seems like this thread got somewhat back on rails.

The problem isn't OH infinatry scaling at all,

The problem is OH ARMOUR vs INFANTRY LATE GAME

Everyone reading this knows that double LMG infantry are able to virtually roam worry free because there is no tank that wipes infantry reliably. (Except the obvious brumbar)

The t34/76/85/Sherman/Cromwell has better AI then the p4,Oswtind,panthers

Katushas/calliope/landmattress have a perfect spread and rocket lethality that reliably deter blobbs and wipe realiabily and will continue to do so

Comets/cromwells vs infantry late game is no doubt bullshit, you don't build these tanks to go AT but to sit back and wipe squads

OH needs buff in AI department, to where your not gonna blindly rush tigers and panthers p4s, AT guns that get flanked can reliably get out of danger because how terrible the tanks AI is

When was the last time you seen a panzerwerfer in a 1v1/2v2

Meanwhile when was the last time you didn't see a landmattress or calliope..

You people are looking in the wrong direction here.

And on another note, axis are ALWAYS responding to allied tactics
That needs to change, OH in particular has nothing in their arsinal to come fast/first with high lethality that would force an allied AT gun or tier Built, correctly (and has been like this forever) OH is ALWAYS FORCED TO GO TIER 1 and TIER 2.

fix the following:

- squads model up to 5
- make panther great again
- bring the WPB patch fix for the BS alli light tanks wich snipes single models
- make that allie cant walk through their own arty call ins/ indirect fire...without lose a single model
- give us already a statistic for brits emplacments (income dmg/ make dmg)
- make that is and rilfes can´t take double weopoans from base (pick up from battleground is ok...remember the trucks which put down weopoans..)
- all tank should have the accuracy from a panther on the move (actuall panther)

fix the following:

- squads model up to 5
- make panther great again
- bring the WPB patch fix for the BS alli light tanks wich snipes single models
- make that allie cant walk through their own arty call ins/ indirect fire...without lose a single model
- give us already a statistic for brits emplacments (income dmg/ make dmg)
- make that is and rilfes can´t take double weopoans from base (pick up from battleground is ok...remember the trucks which put down weopoans..)
- all tank should have the accuracy from a panther on the move (actuall panther)

+1
Even with all of these changes, Brit and USF will still be superior to Ostheer.
Ost are by far the more UP faction, followed close by the sovs.

You guys have it backwards, ostheer isn't underperforming certain factions are overperforming.

Look at the soviets vs Ostheer matchup without the OP penals, they are evenly matched. After WBP they will be much better off, USF and especially UKF will probably need some more tweaking.

+1
Sov vs Ost are matched up (without the OP penals)

Everyone's assuming the model spacing fix will make things perfect, and yes, it's a HUGE fix (fix, not buff, because this was cancerously incorrect game design, not just lack of balance), but this won't change the inherent problem with four-model squads being unviable due to pure math.

Grenadiers, Obersoldaten, etc. lose their first model INSTANTLY upon engaging ANY threat, including just direct rifle fire, which is a loss of 1/4 damage right off the bat, making the unit useless. All the while AoE weapons are both less common and less reliable, so the same brutality doesn't swing both ways (see: flamethrowers vs five and six model squads).

As such, even if the model spacing fix actually works as intended, it won't be enough.

You are goddamn incorrect, my friend. Most of DPS in 4 member squad (except pgrens) lies in their LMG.

Grenadier lmg42 damage is equal to other 3 members damage and obers lmg is far better than all 3 rifles together.

No matter what model you lose, lmg will be always there. This means that your squad can never have less than ~50% of MAX DPS because 50% of squad DPS lies in lmg (or even more in obers lmg).

Also lmg is far better than rifles because it targets single model, killing it and decreasing enemy DPS constantly. Rifles can fire at 5 different models at once, not hurting his DPS at all.

You are goddamn incorrect, my friend. Most of DPS in 4 member squad (except pgrens) lies in their LMG.

Grenadier lmg42 damage is equal to other 3 members damage and obers lmg is far better than all 3 rifles together.

No matter what model you lose, lmg will be always there. This means that your squad can never have less than ~50% of MAX DPS because 50% of squad DPS lies in lmg (or even more in obers lmg).

Also lmg is far better than rifles because it targets single model, killing it and decreasing enemy DPS constantly. Rifles can fire at 5 different models at once, not hurting his DPS at all.

IMO I think that most people dont care about the DPS of the squad. Most people care about the survability and how fast they die against any explosive damage (arty, tank shells, granades, mortars, etc). You can not cap points with death squads!!

IMO I think that most people dont care about the DPS of the squad. Most people care about the survability and how fast they die against any explosive damage (arty, tank shells, granades, mortars, etc). You can not cap points with death squads!!

Squad spacing will higly increase squad survability