Guards Rifle wonder the battlefield like Terminators, massacring all they encounter. Unlike Shock Troops, which are vulnerable to any armor (that's the balance), Guards are great against both armor and infantry. In my experience, in both using and facing Guards Rifle, no German infantry stands up to them, not even non-upgraded PGrens (which do better than Grens but still fall short) and German armor isn't a worry obviously unless it's more than one vehicle and even then, I'm likely to do a good amount of damage before forced into retreat (and that's assuming i'm unsupported).
As doctrinal call-in's Guards should be potent, and they certainly are potent as it stands, but they feel too good.
Shock troop reinforcement cost was increased and that helped, should a similar adjustment be done to guards? Are they fine as-is, why?
Guards Rifle; The 'SU-85' of Infantry?
28 Jul 2013, 16:58 PM
#1
Posts: 99
28 Jul 2013, 17:11 PM
#2
Posts: 76
The only time I have ever beaten PGrens in a fight with guards, is if they are all standing directly under my grenade. - If a pgren uses a grenade on a guard squad - 2-3 minimum die, and then the pgren cleans up.
And guards are not great against all armour, anything higher than T2 and the guards are a support role for real AT. Their button requires munitions, and line of sight. This can easily be countered by panzer smoke.
My opinion - Guards are completely fine where they are.
And guards are not great against all armour, anything higher than T2 and the guards are a support role for real AT. Their button requires munitions, and line of sight. This can easily be countered by panzer smoke.
My opinion - Guards are completely fine where they are.
28 Jul 2013, 17:12 PM
#3
Posts: 74
They are fine.... They will not force off vehicles on their own and pgrens do beat them quite easily with no nades from either side...
28 Jul 2013, 17:20 PM
#4
Posts: 480
They honestly seem OK to me. They're very useful and versatile and slot in really well with the Russian combined-arms-of-doom (Scout car flamer + sniper -> guards, AT nade scripts, double sniper, SU-85) but not a real threat to a well managed vehicle excepting the light ones. P-grens usually beat them, LMG-grens beat them... if I see a ton of them I normally get an Ostwind and pick a vehicle smoke doctrine, since buttoning Ostwinds with smoke is the most reliable way for a Soviet player to waste a ton of munitions and manpower.
28 Jul 2013, 17:51 PM
#5
4 
Posts: 951
I play Wehr mainly and think Guards are pretty well-balanced.
28 Jul 2013, 18:55 PM
#6
Posts: 115
Guards are fine.
28 Jul 2013, 18:56 PM
#7
Posts: 21
Guards are well-balanced and against t3 or t4 armor they are only usefull to button or with
the bulletin : +4% armor penetration.
When i play soviet , i have guards + conscript but not only guards because they can't do anything against medium tank front armor, so if i want guards be effective i have to micro them after conscripts at nade.
They are just fine now and better than they are in beta access BUT NO over powered.
the bulletin : +4% armor penetration.
When i play soviet , i have guards + conscript but not only guards because they can't do anything against medium tank front armor, so if i want guards be effective i have to micro them after conscripts at nade.
They are just fine now and better than they are in beta access BUT NO over powered.
28 Jul 2013, 19:14 PM
#8
Posts: 114
It would be far more useful for you to make a post in the strategy forum saying "I have trouble against Guards, what should I be doing differently." All of these balance complaints are getting absurd.
28 Jul 2013, 19:14 PM
#9
Posts: 627
Guards Rifles are solid. They'll stick up to Grenadiers(With an MG42 it's touch and go who wins, depends on veterancy and luck) but they get rolled over by PzGrens so they have a solid counter, unlike the SU-85.
28 Jul 2013, 19:14 PM
#10
Posts: 148
I have never had guards be effective for infantry.
29 Jul 2013, 15:30 PM
#11
Posts: 915
Guards Rifle wonder the battlefield like Terminators, massacring all they encounter. Unlike Shock Troops, which are vulnerable to any armor (that's the balance), Guards are great against both armor and infantry. In my experience, in both using and facing Guards Rifle, no German infantry stands up to them, not even non-upgraded PGrens (which do better than Grens but still fall short) and German armor isn't a worry obviously unless it's more than one vehicle and even then, I'm likely to do a good amount of damage before forced into retreat (and that's assuming i'm unsupported).
As doctrinal call-in's Guards should be potent, and they certainly are potent as it stands, but they feel too good.
Shock troop reinforcement cost was increased and that helped, should a similar adjustment be done to guards? Are they fine as-is, why?
Your complaints about balance before were somewhat justified. But now with this new "guards are op" thread, with nobody ever making this claim before, id say you definitely lost your credibility. Id change the title or language if I were you. And maybe hold off on making a new thread for a while and try some strats to beat sovs.
29 Jul 2013, 17:00 PM
#12
Posts: 99
It would be far more useful for you to make a post in the strategy forum saying "I have trouble against Guards, what should I be doing differently." All of these balance complaints are getting absurd.
This is a balance discussion on Guards Rifle and belongs right here, where I posted it, in the balance section. If I had trouble with Guards and wanted to know how to "handle them" I'd have asked that. I'm not calling for nerfs or yelling imbalance on Guards. I simply raised the question of balance with Guards, framed it, and placed it in context. Your post however, belongs in the troll bin.
If you think Guards Rifle are fine or not fine, then make a case for that. Or don't. But stop trolling.
29 Jul 2013, 17:05 PM
#13
Posts: 99
Your complaints about balance before were somewhat justified. But now with this new "guards are op" thread, with nobody ever making this claim before, id say you definitely lost your credibility.
Credibility? And who are you again? Oh, nobody. Thanks for reminding me.
Oh, and given the length and depth of discussion and support of my other threads I'd describe them as more than 'somewhat justified'. But I guess when you (i'm referring to you) walk into a thread simply for a personal attack and not in any way add to the OP discussion, it says all we need to know.
Credibility... ha!
29 Jul 2013, 17:27 PM
#14
Posts: 934
Guards are fine. I do consider them to be the 'safe' option for Russia. Easy to adapt to both AT and AP roles and pretty solid for their price.
The only time I really see Guards beat infantry squads without a grenade is when they have conscript, maxim or mortar support. Reason I say this is the PTSR gun causes the opponent to jump are quite frequently, making them highly exposed to fire from the supporting infantry. Is this possible part of your issue L337?
In a 1v1 situation a full health Guards don't really ever beat a full health PG's if not succesful grenade is landed. The standard grens do alright aswell, and even if you kill 3 members with your squad before retreating you come out ahead in the MP war.
The only time I really see Guards beat infantry squads without a grenade is when they have conscript, maxim or mortar support. Reason I say this is the PTSR gun causes the opponent to jump are quite frequently, making them highly exposed to fire from the supporting infantry. Is this possible part of your issue L337?
In a 1v1 situation a full health Guards don't really ever beat a full health PG's if not succesful grenade is landed. The standard grens do alright aswell, and even if you kill 3 members with your squad before retreating you come out ahead in the MP war.
29 Jul 2013, 17:31 PM
#15
Posts: 182
Hey man, if you would like some real input, I'd highly recommend posting a replay. Also, guards IMO seem fine, I'm curious what exact situation you ended up in to think otherwise.
29 Jul 2013, 17:46 PM
#16
Posts: 101
If you look at this guy's other posts, he's obviously a troll. Don't feed him. Guards alone don't beat either infantry or armor. As support units, they're great, but they're certainly not Terminators of Doom or whatever.
29 Jul 2013, 18:19 PM
#17
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedMy only concern related to this, is Guard in M3s in early game.
This is however an issue with M3 free open garrison, rather than it is with Guard themselves.
This is however an issue with M3 free open garrison, rather than it is with Guard themselves.
29 Jul 2013, 19:29 PM
#18
Posts: 915
Credibility? And who are you again? Oh, nobody. Thanks for reminding me.
Oh, and given the length and depth of discussion and support of my other threads I'd describe them as more than 'somewhat justified'. But I guess when you (i'm referring to you) walk into a thread simply for a personal attack and not in any way add to the OP discussion, it says all we need to know.
Credibility... ha!
I can make an arguement asking who are you to make a thread complaining something is op. Especialy without any stats or replays, just a simple assumption. I supported your other threads but this one, no. And from your response ill definitely not even take into consideration what you post again unless there is some thought to it. Like I said, before making a terrible and unaccurate assumption, try harder at proving it. Guards are very far from your statement "guards are like terminators,..." rofl what an observation... I dont even know what game your playing now.
By the way dont use "we" dragging the whole community with you. I represent myself, I didnt realize you represented coh2.org. lol.
So.. any vids with these t1000 guards?
29 Jul 2013, 19:58 PM
#19
Posts: 255
the OP is a troll, he trolls everything, next post will be how OP m5s are with the quad upgrade.
29 Jul 2013, 21:06 PM
#20
Posts: 954
OP, seriously, stop trolling,
All your troll post are about:
*SU-85 is OP please nerf(meanwhile a PZIV eats everything),
*Tiger&Elefant overpriced(Never mention JS-2 and ISU are also have high price)
*T-34/76 needs a nerf not a buff (really?)
*Guard is OP
my suggestion: you buy-off the relic, and let them make a Company Of Heroes2 REICH-FANBOY version with no any non-aix faction included.
seriously,if you want to talk about balance that's fine,but you are starting every post about nerfing every soviet unit in the game and buff everything ostheer have, you are just a troll
All your troll post are about:
*SU-85 is OP please nerf(meanwhile a PZIV eats everything),
*Tiger&Elefant overpriced(Never mention JS-2 and ISU are also have high price)
*T-34/76 needs a nerf not a buff (really?)
*Guard is OP
my suggestion: you buy-off the relic, and let them make a Company Of Heroes2 REICH-FANBOY version with no any non-aix faction included.
seriously,if you want to talk about balance that's fine,but you are starting every post about nerfing every soviet unit in the game and buff everything ostheer have, you are just a troll
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
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