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What is the state of Panzer 4 on the Winter Balance Patch

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Dangerous-Cloth
11 Feb 2017, 09:03 AM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2017, 23:33 PMelchino7


Somehow this remind me of:



And for people complaining about Relic's way of doing things...well:
"You merely adopted the scope. I was born with Company of houses. Molded by Company of call ins. I didn't see crap RNG removed till many planes crashes on my units".


Most cancerous of Relic's ploys was self spotting ISU-152 and Elefant. Now that I think of it, the preview stream of Tiger Ace and Windustry by relic was funny too. The guy knew that everything was completely broken and overpowered, but he still tried to talk over it with arguments about how you could easily counter the I WIN button Tiger Ace or the 5 minute T34 lol.
Kappa
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Justin xv
11 Feb 2017, 09:29 AM
#22
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 03:53 AMluvnest
P4 is how a medium tank is supposed to be, slow and sluggish, but decent at AT and AI. What needs a change is the ridiculous mobility (acceleration, turning speed) for Cromwells and M10s. Rather then bringing the P4 on their level, I'd like the opposite to happen.


What's wrong with the M10? M10 is a specialist tank destroyer meant for fast flanks and exclusively denying medium tanks.

I agree with Crom obviously but I think the M10 is in a decent place.
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Vipper
11 Feb 2017, 09:37 AM
#23
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In the beginning Axis armor was designed to be superior and thus more expensive due to higher armor. Now most Allied AT is buffed to levels that make that armor pointless.

A Su-76 has around 60% to penetrate a Tiger frontally at range 60.

Tank battle/TD battle need to be redesigned. All allied AT weapons should no designed with countering the KT in mind. If the KT is a problem then it should either some units should have bones against it or be nerfed.

:)
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karskimies
11 Feb 2017, 10:52 AM
#24
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Posts: 67

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 09:29 AMJustin xv


What's wrong with the M10? M10 is a specialist tank destroyer meant for fast flanks and exclusively denying medium tanks.


I agree with Crom obviously but I think the M10 is in a decent place.


It is not in right place. Its turning rate makes it dream inf crusher. "specialist" that hunts tanks and kills infantry.
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aerafield
11 Feb 2017, 11:31 AM
#25
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 09:29 AMJustin xv


What's wrong with the M10? M10 is a specialist tank destroyer meant for fast flanks and exclusively denying medium tanks.

I agree with Crom obviously but I think the M10 is in a decent place.


Dude you ever saw how easy it is to crush wipe an entire inf squad within 0.5 sec with the M10?

What you said would be right if the M10 would no longer be able to crush infantry.

But what I really dont get about M10 is its buff in the past..

Which fool decided to design a call-in tank for 80 fuel which has more Hitpoints than any medium tank and which main gun only sucks vs the heaviest german tanks. :loco: :loco: :loco:
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__deleted__
11 Feb 2017, 11:41 AM
#26
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 11:31 AMaerafield


Dude you ever saw how easy it is to crush wipe an entire inf squad within 0.5 sec with the M10?

What you said would be right if the M10 would no longer be able to crush infantry.

But what I really dont get about M10 is its buff in the past..

Which fool decided to design a call-in tank for 80 fuel which has more Hitpoints than any medium tank and which main gun only sucks vs the heaviest german tanks. :loco: :loco: :loco:


If it won´t be able to crush, it will just shittier version of t34/76 that is call-inable and performs better against tanks in direct combat without flanking (you should avoid direct combat with both of them)
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Vipper
11 Feb 2017, 12:15 PM
#27
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 11:41 AM__deleted__


If it won´t be able to crush, it will just shittier version of t34/76 that is call-inable and performs better against tanks in direct combat without flanking (you should avoid direct combat with both of them)

How does a TD compare with a Tank? How does a unit requiring T4 tech compare with CP 8 unit?
there is very litle common with t34/76 and the m10
:)
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__deleted__
11 Feb 2017, 12:17 PM
#28
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 12:15 PMVipper

How does a TD compare with a Tank? How does a unit requiring T4 tech compare with CP 8 unit?
there is very litle common with t34/76 and the m10


They have their own concept very similar.

Both cost 80 fuel and both are disigned to pack hunting. You cannot fight axis tanks with them head on, you must create pack of them, flank and kill tank from behind.

Only difference between them is that t34/76 have somewhat AI but is slower
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Vipper
11 Feb 2017, 12:33 PM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 12:17 PM__deleted__


They have their own concept very similar.

Both cost 80 fuel and both are disigned to pack hunting. You cannot fight axis tanks with them head on, you must create pack of them, flank and kill tank from behind.

Only difference between them is that t34/76 have somewhat AI but is slower

1) T34/76 has far better AI with 2 mg and gun that can kill infantry
2) M10 gets AP round that can penetrate enemy vehicles frontally

They are different units in different factions, with different roles and different teching. As you pointed out the only common factor is both units can be spammed...
:)
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__deleted__
11 Feb 2017, 12:56 PM
#30
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 12:33 PMVipper

1) T34/76 has far better AI with 2 mg and gun that can kill infantry
2) M10 gets AP round that can penetrate enemy vehicles frontally

They are different units in different factions, with different roles and different teching. As you pointed out the only common factor is both units can be spammed...


lol no. In lategame you will use both of them similary, go into battlefield kill big tank and idealy also fall back alive.

Yes t34/76 have far better AI but its still so trash and unrealiable + enemy pak wall are there, so you won´t have 1 minute to kill gren squad with hmgs on t34/76
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Con!
11 Feb 2017, 14:33 PM
#31
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Not sure where the whole Cromwell and Comet OP thing comes from. In a head to head fight the p4 and panther beat each at their respective levels. Also, the p4 Area distance (F/N)1.88 / 0.75 does more AI then a Cromwell Area distance (F/N)1.50 / 0.25 which is the same as the non-he shell Sherman.

The reason the p4 has less pen is it has more armor. In a medium fight, the p4 has a slight edge in the pen chance vs most allied tanks (10 less pen for p4 but 20 more armor over Sherman/Cromwell, but once it hits vet 2 or is okw verison it goes into heavily favored to the p4. The problem isn't so much the p4 but the fact that often your fighting 2v1 vs allied armor or in need of a heavier hitting impact unit. The p4 is a grinder kind of unit, given time your p4's will out match similarly leveled allied medium armor.












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OuTLaWSTaR
11 Feb 2017, 14:34 PM
#32
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 03:53 AMluvnest
P4 is how a medium tank is supposed to be, slow and sluggish, but decent at AT and AI. What needs a change is the ridiculous mobility (acceleration, turning speed) for Cromwells and M10s. Rather then bringing the P4 on their level, I'd like the opposite to happen.


This, took the words right out of my mouth.
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Bohewulf
11 Feb 2017, 14:38 PM
#33
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 03:53 AMluvnest
P4 is how a medium tank is supposed to be, slow and sluggish, but decent at AT and AI. What needs a change is the ridiculous mobility (acceleration, turning speed) for Cromwells and M10s. Rather then bringing the P4 on their level, I'd like the opposite to happen.


This

It becomes obvious that there is a problem with the soft stats of certain armour of WfA factions if we look at a heavy tank like the churchill which has a turning speed nearly as good as a light tank. This is clearly not right and it is not unreasonable to assume that similar extremness has slipped into the stats of other units like medium tanks.


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Outsider_Sidaroth
11 Feb 2017, 15:01 PM
#34
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 11:31 AMaerafield


Dude you ever saw how easy it is to crush wipe an entire inf squad within 0.5 sec with the M10?

What you said would be right if the M10 would no longer be able to crush infantry.

But what I really dont get about M10 is its buff in the past..

Which fool decided to design a call-in tank for 80 fuel which has more Hitpoints than any medium tank and which main gun only sucks vs the heaviest german tanks. :loco: :loco: :loco:


M10 used to cost less before the nerf and it has less HP than the average Medium Tank too, it might be a bit too good at killing infantry due to it's speed but, you need it to counter Stug-E or Prostwind spam.
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ZombiFrancis
11 Feb 2017, 16:20 PM
#35
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Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 12:15 PMVipper

How does a TD compare with a Tank? How does a unit requiring T4 tech compare with CP 8 unit?
there is very litle common with t34/76 and the m10


I am more interested in how soviets compare to USF with this argument.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
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Classic resource points!
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Grumpy
11 Feb 2017, 21:35 PM
#36
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Posts: 1954

I've been playing Ost (but not balance patch) this weekend. Every game has been a shitfest of mortars. They didn't change the P4 in the WBP so it's still an overpriced mediocre medium.
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APlebsyTeddyBear18
11 Feb 2017, 21:37 PM
#37
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Posts: 25

The Panzer IV isn't that bad as it is made out to be here. Look at my replay, It stayed alive and in the fight the entire game! If used properly, it can make your day really bad!

https://www.coh2.org/replay/59176/the-most-intense-game-i-ever-played
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RealName
13 Feb 2017, 05:40 AM
#38
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Posts: 276

Still unfair how brit tanks, practically cheaper AND better, have bullshit 75% accuracy on the move. I mean, i understand why US and Rus have that, but why the brits.

put that in the nerfs too pls
I am not responsible for anything I say.
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spajn
13 Feb 2017, 11:27 AM
#40
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modders are obviously allies/okw players

like most players today, ostheers techtree is just too complicated so if they have to play axis they just go okw.

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