Tiger Ace's resource penalties
1 Feb 2017, 17:03 PM
#21
Posts: 1273
It is a Tiger fully vetted. You argue for the sake of arguing.
1 Feb 2017, 17:06 PM
#22
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
It is a Tiger fully vetted. You argue for the sake of arguing.
You are the one who is actually arguing of sake of arguing even when the debate is over and we have agreed to disagree. On top of that you actually have zero contribution to the topic of the thread (but that is probably a trend of yours).
Let me explain this to once more since you probably have not read what has been already said:
Tiger vet 3 does not have the same stat as Tiger ACE so it not a Tiger fully vetted.
I have nothing to add so have a nice day and bb now.
1 Feb 2017, 17:09 PM
#23
Posts: 401
I don't have the commander, but i kinda understand the idea...
I think this could be a viable option, if the battle goes sour in the late game. Say, you lose your fuelpoints and can't recap, enemy tankrush seems imminent, oh no what do!?
Tiger Ace Hero Übermensch to the rescue!
It feels like it's Mr. Adolf H. mindset unit. It's all or nothing at all! You either win or lose with this unit, you can and will shock and awe with him! If he falls, all hope is lost. Or this hero will bring you victory with him.
Or hopefully at least regain the fuel, and continue the fight. His sacrifice will not be for nothing.
Just BECAUSE this unit doesn't follow all other units (irreplaceable call in, doesn't need fuel) it is interesting. When this wildcard is in play it's not impossible to get a powerful armor, even without access to fuel.
Interesting unit... It's ok that it has resource penalty. It makes it a very dangerous and high risk card to play
Well, that's what it was when it was released: A 3000 HP Tiger with invincible power to save the day! However, that kind of units has been removed (Veteran Rifleman, veteran trainning, vet Pz.IV, etc.) due to it being imbalance. Basically, the entire concept was a flaw and it got fixed, except for this guy! The Ace got neft to where it is now (Which is fine and needed) but the penalties are the remnants of that old flaw and well, you can guess it, needs to get fix. Just try the commander out if you can and you can see that the Ace is literally unusable in 2v2+ (Calling it in will basically means you just signed your own surrender pact)
1 Feb 2017, 17:36 PM
#24
Posts: 930
how to win with elite troops:
1.play normally
2.keep your core units alive and vetted (pios, grens, PGs, PaKs)
3.go T3 and make 3 stugs
4.wait for ace
5.select everyone, move into enemy base
6.?????
7.profit
1.play normally
2.keep your core units alive and vetted (pios, grens, PGs, PaKs)
3.go T3 and make 3 stugs
4.wait for ace
5.select everyone, move into enemy base
6.?????
7.profit
1 Feb 2017, 17:46 PM
#25
14 
Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9
Well, that's what it was when it was released: A 3000 HP Tiger with invincible power to save the day! However, that kind of units has been removed (Veteran Rifleman, veteran trainning, vet Pz.IV, etc.) due to it being imbalance. Basically, the entire concept was a flaw and it got fixed, except for this guy! The Ace got neft to where it is now (Which is fine and needed) but the penalties are the remnants of that old flaw and well, you can guess it, needs to get fix. Just try the commander out if you can and you can see that the Ace is literally unusable in 2v2+ (Calling it in will basically means you just signed your own surrender pact)
You, and others here, are correct when you state the original design concept was flawed. I can only guess, but I think it was probably meant to be the Commander equivalent of the Panther Battle Group.
TBH, the best way forward would have been to redesign this Commander by throwing out the Tiger, insert a PBG (renewable), reduce the CPs for the call-in,and redesign the interim stages with the insertion of a Bergetiger. Fuel would become very necessary, not irrelevant.
1 Feb 2017, 17:50 PM
#26
Posts: 367
im rank 29 with Imagelessbean in 2vs2 with axis. Bean is using the tiger ace almost 40% of the games and we never lost. it a very powerfull units, in good hands.
1 Feb 2017, 18:02 PM
#27
Posts: 327
Will simply have to agree to disagree.
You're disagreeing not with me but the game here.
1 Feb 2017, 18:02 PM
#28
Posts: 2066
im rank 29 with Imagelessbean in 2vs2 with axis. Bean is using the tiger ace almost 40% of the games and we never lost. it a very powerfull units, in good hands.
It's overpowered.
Kappa
1 Feb 2017, 18:05 PM
#29
Posts: 930
The Ace has no veterancy, I think it only have 3 stars because game mechanics reasons.
The only units on the games that have no veterancy are non-combat units (opel truck, WM open top halftrack and infrared HT)
The only units on the games that have no veterancy are non-combat units (opel truck, WM open top halftrack and infrared HT)
1 Feb 2017, 18:06 PM
#30
Posts: 525
You're disagreeing not with me but the game here.
As in the picture,it is already vetted,what do you want ?
And on-topic,this thing is a gamechanger...Had games when my opponent played like s**t ,then this broken thing comes and...
Yea,gg
1 Feb 2017, 18:32 PM
#31
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
And generally I do not like that can not vet.
This is your subjective opinion.
For you Tiger ACE is fully vetted unit for me it is not it is simply a different type of Tiger, the same way a OKW Panther is different type of Panther.
This is the part where you are objectively incorrect.
Both share the same gun.
Both share the same hull mg.
They differ on the coaxial. (TA has double DPS but doesn't get access to MG gunner)
TA has +240HP, +7popcap, +15sight.
It has a slight higher vet xp value. The offensive differences against a normal Tiger are applied through it's veterancy (http://stat.coh2.hu/vetraw.php?filename=tiger_ace_squad_mp)
The Ace has no veterancy, I think it only have 3 stars because game mechanics reasons.
The only units on the games that have no veterancy are non-combat units (opel truck, WM open top halftrack and infrared HT)
First part, read above.
Second part: there are more and it includes "combat" units as well.
Sws HT, Sturm Offizier, Goliath (kappa), (not sure if buildable flak bunker has popcap) Ambulance, USF/UKF Medics, UKF M3 HT not having vet2/3 bonuses (can't remember if they fixed it on WBP or Live)
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
1 Feb 2017, 18:42 PM
#32
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
This is your subjective opinion.
This is the part where you are objectively incorrect.
Both share the same gun.
Both share the same hull mg.
They differ on the coaxial. (TA has double DPS but doesn't get access to MG gunner)
TA has +240HP, +7popcap, +15sight.
It has a slight higher vet xp value. The offensive differences against a normal Tiger are applied through it's veterancy (http://stat.coh2.hu/vetraw.php?filename=tiger_ace_squad_mp)
And reload speed ? (only for curiosity, i am not entering in the debate )
1 Feb 2017, 18:45 PM
#33
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
And reload speed ? (only for curiosity, i am not entering in the debate )
That's applied through vet -30% at vet 3.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
1 Feb 2017, 18:48 PM
#34
Posts: 327
As in the picture,it is already vetted,what do you want ?
Seriously, at least read the discussion you're replying to.
1 Feb 2017, 18:52 PM
#35
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
It is indeed technically true the Tiger Ace is a more distinct unit than "Insta vet 3 Tiger" - in addition to it starting with the veterancy bonuses as expected, the Tiger Ace has 240 more health that renders it capable of surviving one more penetrating round from a barrage of 160-damage AT sources, has 15 more sight which makes it able to fire at maximum range on its own, and it cannot get a pintle MG while having a better coaxial MG (though when comparing the sum of MGs' effectiveness, having an upgraded Tiger's pintle MG is superior to the Tiger Ace's MGs).
Vipper was saying a vet 3 Tiger's stats are still different than a Tiger Ace's, which is indeed technically true. Whether the differences are sufficient...well, now that's up to you.
This is the part where you are objectively incorrect.
Both share the same gun.
Both share the same hull mg.
They differ on the coaxial. (TA has double DPS but doesn't get access to MG gunner)
TA has +240HP, +7popcap, +15sight.
It has a slight higher vet xp value. The offensive differences against a normal Tiger are applied through it's veterancy (http://stat.coh2.hu/vetraw.php?filename=tiger_ace_squad_mp)
Vipper was saying a vet 3 Tiger's stats are still different than a Tiger Ace's, which is indeed technically true. Whether the differences are sufficient...well, now that's up to you.
1 Feb 2017, 19:06 PM
#36
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
"And generally I do not like that can not vet. "
This is your subjective opinion.
Yes it is personal subjective opinion. The reason I do not like it, is that veterancy is key mechanic of the game that I like.
From the post where quoted me.
"Will simply have to agree to disagree:
For you Tiger ACE is fully vetted unit for me it is not, it is simply a different type of Tiger, the same way a OKW Panther is different type of Panther."
No idea why we still debating this.
In the end of the day if the name and 3 stars over the icon is the issue renamed to TIGER Ausf. E removed the stars and allow it vet.
The whole commander was initially designed to have less but vet units and a all or nothing button if things went wrong.
Everything has change since then and Tiger ACE does not hold the shock value it once had. It would be better if it changed.
Giving normal fuel price and removing the penalty seem changes in right direction.
1 Feb 2017, 20:49 PM
#37
1 
Posts: 2885
The ace is fine. It is usefull, but you have to consider when and even if you want to buy it instead of something else - exactly as it should be.
1 Feb 2017, 21:28 PM
#38
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
snip
Giving normal fuel price and removing the penalty seem changes in right direction.
For the first part, it's not that i don't disagree on making the TA gain vet as many other units might as well, is to remark that the TA actually has vet applying to the unit. In the hypothetical case of giving it vet, the performance would drop and the xp value of the unit as well. If you want equal performance on top of veterancy you had to: 1.7± the value of the unit, increase base speed/acceleration by 20%, make a new gun profile for it, etc.
Regarding the 2nd, that's not enough. It has to be special in some way, not just a golden skin. TBH at this stage of the game, i would leave as it is. If there were infinite resources and time, i'll gladly like it to be changed but this is not the case.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
1 Feb 2017, 22:00 PM
#40
Posts: 1487
To be serious if coh2 is ever to be competive game. Then TA have to be comppetely removed. Alongside with 2v2+ modes.
Adding fuel cost wont do anyhing.
Competitive computer game is questionable thing in general.
Adding fuel cost wont do anyhing.
Competitive computer game is questionable thing in general.
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