The Churchill could do with a buff.

Maybe giving the Churchill pyrotechnic flares locked behind vet or as a munition purchase could broaden it's infantry support functions, seen as a) Tommies aren't equipped with them very often (they need their medic kits) and b) Snipers seldomly survive until the late game.
Only problem I see with this, is that Churchills are currently locked behind anvil which gives you the airburst shells which in return can be quite nasty, perhaps too nasty for them to be called in by a heavy tank...
Just brainstorming anyways

It is hard to look good, when you are surrounded by far better tanks.

This ^

Problem is that with hammer all you need is Comet, nothing else.
With anvil, you won't live long spamming Churchills. You need to combine them with Firefly.

So here is a question.

Do you prefer 2 Comets or 1 Churchill and 1 Firefly?

Churchill is just damage-sponge which needs something hard-hitting.
Comet does everything on its own.

I belive that small armor buff (so it has quite good chance of bouncing pak40) and AI buff would suit very well.

Right now it's a great tool to help axis' paks and panthers vet quite fast huh...

Problem is that with hammer all you need is Comet, nothing else.
With anvil, you won't live long spamming Churchills. You need to combined them with Firefly.

So here is a question.

Do you prefer 2 Coments or 1 Churchill and 1 Firefly?

Churchill is just damage-sponge which needs something hard-hitting.
Comet does everything on its own.

I belive that small armor buff (so it has quite good chance of bouncing pak40) and AI buff would suit very well.

Right now it's a great tool to help axis' paks and panthers vet quite fast huh...

I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion and suggestions.

I think that Churchill can never be a good utility unit. Brit infantry offer 0 utility to late-game engagements, and Cromwell smoke shell is all the utility you need to keep your infantry relevant. Diving in and out with a slow-moving tank is just asking for your opponents to vet up their Paks and wreck you. Also, unlike Cromwell, you can't use Churchill for flanking anything.

At the same time Churchill spam can be a legitimately annoying strategy to play against, especially since Anvil engineers repair so damn fast.

If nothing is to change, I would make the following adjustments to the Churchill:
- Allow the grenade to be fired on the move, but tone it down to normal grenade levels (you can already do that, if you know how to trigger that bug)
- Remove smoke projector movement speed penalty (Churchill is already damn slow)
- Remove moving penalties from side-hatch guns (in order to use them, the tank needs to rotate, and rotation counts as movement)
- Reduce popcap to 16, so that it has same popcap as a Panther, and lower popcap than Comet/Crocodile/AVRE/etc

I think those buffs would help Churchill remain relevant, without being too overwhelming. Still, I don't think people will use the Churchill for its utility as long as you can have easier access to smoke shells.

Yes it will, if comet wernt so good, we will be seeing some nice Armour combos such as firefly in combination with Churchill

This is possible only in big games. Church plus firefly combo is a huge fuel loss. So people will spam cromwells and at guns without any combined arms, because after a huge nerf for comet, these upgrades will become useleth.

- Remove smoke projector movement speed penalty (Churchill is already damn slow)

This

if the chirchills infantry guns were buffed and side guns actually did dmg it will be fine but the machine guns on the tank aint wat its supposed to be

forgot to mention its not a damage sponge cuz it dont bounce often. had a huge hp nerf and its slow asf....it cant run from another tank. the smoke makes the running worse. units ground attack it its to slow to dodge ground attack.

I think the Churchill is good where it is now except the price: it could do with a reduction. It already has the most HP of any tank and can bounce shrecks pretty often which means good armor.

I think the comet should be nerfed - for a tank that is cheaper than a panther is it overall better and the armor is too thick for a tank that should be the same armor wise as the Cromwell.

For a tank that barely saw action in WW2, it is seen far too often in this game and much better than the actual tank.

Why buff a unit if another one is better ?..

The smoke movement penalty is probably a bit high. As other have stated when the comet (and war speed) is so good there isn't much point getting the Churchill, especially when you have to pay for the engineer upgrade now.

Dispach double churchill maximum in the field and to rise improving some stats to can compete against heavy

I think that no matter how strong you make the smoke projector of the churchill, this will never match the effectiveness of a long-range smoke shell from the Cromwell, both in terms of protecting itself, or in terms of protecting juicy targets (firefly), or in terms of covering advancing infantry.

You -are- putting the tank in danger anyway, and there's only one avenue of attack you are creating; right behind the churchill. A clever adversary will just fire at the churchill and suppress all your troops, or will just use indirect fire.

The Cromwell can also flank stuff with ease, which the Churchill can't do. Thus, the churchill makes little chance to build, even if you go Anvil, unless you're playing Pripyat sector or Trois Points.

A better idea would be to have the Churchill provide something complementary to Cromwell's smoke shell. If the Churchill could spawn a smoke cloud that could prevent infantry from being suppressed that would already make it a high-utility tank.

This will make the Churchill a high-value target for the enemy, thus allowing it to fulfill its role as a meatshield (now, it can be safely ignored).

In that way, Hammer will be the specialization about tank support, and Anvil will be about infantry-support.

The question, then, becomes about how to make said smoke buff not synergise too well with LMG blobs.

AHAHAHA, no next please.

I think that no matter how strong you make the smoke projector of the churchill, this will never match the effectiveness of a long-range smoke shell from the Cromwell, both in terms of protecting itself, or in terms of protecting juicy targets (firefly), or in terms of covering advancing infantry.

You -are- putting the tank in danger anyway, and there's only one avenue of attack you are creating; right behind the churchill. A clever adversary will just fire at the churchill and suppress all your troops, or will just use indirect fire.

The Cromwell can also flank stuff with ease, which the Churchill can't do. Thus, the churchill makes little chance to build, even if you go Anvil, unless you're playing Pripyat sector or Trois Points.

A better idea would be to have the Churchill provide something complementary to Cromwell's smoke shell. If the Churchill could spawn a smoke cloud that could prevent infantry from being suppressed that would already make it a high-utility tank.

This will make the Churchill a high-value target for the enemy, thus allowing it to fulfill its role as a meatshield (now, it can be safely ignored).

In that way, Hammer will be the specialization about tank support, and Anvil will be about infantry-support.

The question, then, becomes about how to make said smoke buff not synergise too well with LMG blobs.

What about losing the Cromwell's smoke shell then? It would need something in return though... the Cromwell had an advantage in surprise in the war, due to it's low profile... I wonder, would a Jagdpanzer esque cloak be too over powered?

What about losing the Cromwell's smoke shell then?

That could kind of work.

However this means that Brits get no smoke until the first Churchill/Comet. In that case, it's better to avoid buying infantry upgrades altogether.

That could kind of work.

However this means that Brits get no smoke until the first Churchill/Comet. In that case, it's better to avoid buying infantry upgrades altogether.

Maybe... unless the mortar pit was changed as well to make it more appealing to both it's users and it's opponents. Namely, being easier to counter but more versatile as a result. I'd like to try out giving the pit it's old light/heavy shells back, with possibly a normal smoke barrage coming stock, with a either no Vet 1 ability or another to compensate.
Also, historically, 25 Pounders had smoke shells. How would the game/meta react to the pyro flares unlocking a smoke barrage flare as well?

Every Churchill tank is just stupid to play against. The main Chruchill might be UP and close to useless but the Crocodile and the AVRE are not.

These are two high damage mobile bunkers that disables everything that is not a Panther or better. Fuck all PaKs - 70% of their shots will deflect and they will die in 2 seconds (Crocodile) or in 0,1 second (AVRE) without anything you can do about it. P4s won't damage it unless it shoots its ass but the Crocodile even has a main cannon besides the flame thrower which is everything but bad. The AVRE on the other hand can easily put any German tank to half its health with a shot in the back. Which is not wrong, because the rear armor should be weak.

IMO the churchills simply have way too much armor and way too much health. It's impossible to kill a Churchill with your main AT (PaK40 / Raketenwerfer) because you need about 7-8 shots that penetrate. And if only every second shot penetrates it (at best) you need about 15 shots. While the Crocodile/AVRE itself can drive up to any PaK wall and kill it in an instant. And also there is this utter BS tank grenade...