Relic Winter Balance Preview v1.4 Update

Finally ghosting gets fixed!
Also nerfing the USF mortar further is a good thing. it was never meant to kill enemy squads but simply clear building and provide smoke to attack mgs.

At this point I dont even care about penals replacing cons.

YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST!

If WBP do not just touch more units. The patch is great but better join it to coh2live.

I must admit that it should not be longer than 1.07 or 1.08 and release the patch before the MWNL.

Unfinished wire/sandbags/tank traps (aka ghostbags) will self-destruct automatically if there is no longer an infantry squad (owned by the same player) within 10 meters of the unfinished fortifications for 5 seconds.

THANK YOU

I am waiting since 2013 for this

WOHOOOOOO

Oh you buff kubel. Great..... (Meh). Rly? We have got a lot of units that are not working properly or well (kv1, sherman dozer etc) and kubel? Rly? It is good unit right now, it doesnt need any buffs.

"Fixed an issue where OST Pioneers would announce “anti-personnel” mines being built, when in fact building a Teller mine"

Did you also change them telling about anti-tank mines when planting s-mine field? Or is only one of those issues fixed?


Also, the ghosting change doesn't change vehicles being blocked by newly ghosted tanktrap ghosts. Is it not considered an exploit any more?

Can someone pls explain this PTRS penal change to me?
It is pretty obvious that this was requested by gardening noobs who BabyRage when they cant protect their snipers/penals from light vehicles with AT grenade conscripts and mines

ALSO you can tech to t2 after t1 for ZiS since t1,2 are so cheap.

seems odd that a patch about with light vehicle focus can't give brits some form of at nade. There is like no good reason for them to not have one, other than making them "different". As well as not addressing the valentine or greyhound which currently are useless and have no place in the game at all...

seems odd that a patch about with light vehicle focus can't give brits some form of at nade. There is like no good reason for them to not have one, other than making them "different". As well as not addressing the valentine or greyhound which currently are useless and have no place in the game at all...

We did give PIATs homing projectile. Perhaps that will be enough to help Brit early game, perhaps it won't. At the very least, you won't be seeing cancerous PIAT spammerinos in the late-game.

Regarding AT nade:
- That would very likely require us to rebalance Tommies (since they now become generalists)
- And it would also definitely require us to rebalance Comets/Cromwells

Even though both are highly needed, those are way out of scope. Now that I'm also looking at it from midway-through the WBP, I also think that this would have been far too many changes for a single patch to handle.

Regarding Greyhound etc, we have plans about how to address those vehicles. Unfortunately the scope of "Light Vehicles" only includes "Non-doctrinal Light Vehicles" and "Overperforming doctrinal light-vehicles" (Stug-E). A plus side of narrowing the focus is that you guys can playtest the hell out of the ones we did change!

This patch is just so far off course and feels like community feedback is basically disregarded. If the final patch looks anything like what the WBP is currently, god help anyone who still wants to play this game in any competitive fashion.

Are you talking about Penals PTRS or the patch in general. While i don't like the idea/concept (PTRS Penals), i'm not as butthurt as the tree is not blocking the forest.
There is a huge number bugfixes and QOL changes implemented. Most of the balance changes are either good or in the right direction at least. Do you disagree with the following ones?

Long list:
Show Spoiler

As i said before, i'm opposed to PTRS Penals.
I've my doubts with how the new light vehicle/tank meta will play but nothing worst that what we have now. In this case, i think it's good that steady/reliable dps > burst/rng wipes.
PIATS are a hmmm change, worst for good players, better for bad ones. Different.

Really go here, look at the changelog and tell me most of it is trash.

All this cosmetic changes its okey, that you guys try to make ideal balance, but you need focus at more broken things, this scope if need can end in global patch, but another units and ability need change.

Can someone pls explain this PTRS penal change to me?
It is pretty obvious that this was requested by gardening noobs who BabyRage when they cant protect their snipers/penals from light vehicles with AT grenade conscripts and mines

ALSO you can tech to t2 after t1 for ZiS since t1,2 are so cheap.

Problem are not with fuel, problem are with MP, soviet with t1 + t2 its a lot MP and mean late t3 or no calling infatry into callins tanks or t4. The main resource for soviet is MP. But PTRS penals still look strange for me.

Penals spam can now counter everything, this isn't a smart move.

Separate post for V1.4:
There are good ones (specially ones which were ask for years) and some which will have big repercussions.

FINALLY:
Reduced the rate at which infantry-held anti-tank weapons would award veterancy
251 Flame Half-Track against garrison
Ghost Wire/Sand Bags
Minimap Icons
Bug Fixes

Sdkfz 251 Flak Halftrack, 222 Scout Car, Stug-E, 81mm Mortar, M20, M15: are sensible changes.

Stuart: does it really need it. Does it make a change? +10 pen is not gonna make OP i guess.



Penals: i think at this point the question should be, is it worth the effort of testing/tweaking to implement PTRS rifles on them? ATM i think that live Penals have enough flavour but they are OP in the sense of spamming them for 2v2+. The addition of AT satchel, changes to flamer, oorah and vet should be enough.

M3A1 Scout Car: i'm cautious regarding how fast it's gonna gain vet and the effects it could have the accuracy bonuses at vet2/vet3 early on.

T-70: i hope it's not TOO good.

Panzerfausts: why not only 1 change. In fact, why not only the deploying a truck to be applied? 25 seems a bit too few. I'm bargaining why not 30 from the start.

Kubelwagen: FINALLY the detection is changed to something more sensible. I'm just a little scared about shared veterancy and how fast it can vet. Specially since no human has use it's vet powers since the day of Kubeljesus. I'm interested on how passive repair and suppression is gonna perform, for a unit which can now capture points.

Separate post for V1.4:
There are good ones (specially ones which were ask for years) and some which will have big repercussions.

FINALLY:
Reduced the rate at which infantry-held anti-tank weapons would award veterancy
251 Flame Half-Track against garrison
Ghost Wire/Sand Bags
Minimap Icons
Bug Fixes

Sdkfz 251 Flak Halftrack, 222 Scout Car, Stug-E, 81mm Mortar, M20, M15: are sensible changes.

Stuart: does it really need it. Does it make a change? +10 pen is not gonna make OP i guess.



Penals: i think at this point the question should be, is it worth the effort of testing/tweaking to implement PTRS rifles on them? ATM i think that live Penals have enough flavour but they are OP in the sense of spamming them for 2v2+. The addition of AT satchel, changes to flamer, oorah and vet should be enough.

M3A1 Scout Car: i'm cautious regarding how fast it's gonna gain vet and the effects it could have the accuracy bonuses at vet2/vet3 early on.

T-70: i hope it's not TOO good.

Panzerfausts: why not only 1 change. In fact, why not only the deploying a truck to be applied? 25 seems a bit too few. I'm bargaining why not 30 from the start.

Kubelwagen: FINALLY the detection is changed to something more sensible. I'm just a little scared about shared veterancy and how fast it can vet. Specially since no human has use it's vet powers since the day of Kubeljesus. I'm interested on how passive repair and suppression is gonna perform, for a unit which can now capture points.

T-70 MG would have about 2-3 DPS at max range, which is basically nothing. On the right conditions, it could also take 9 seconds between bursts.

For the vehicles that got Shared Vet, we kind of no-scoped the thresholds. In order to tune this to the right value, we have to play loads and loads of games, and see how much opportunity there is for blobbing around the thing to boost its Vet.

Unfortunately, most of the changes were implemented during holidays, when we didn't have the time to playtest the threshold changes as much as we wanted. We also completely forgot to add shared veterancy to one other vehicle that needs it (can you guess?!). However, there will definitely be adjustments, if needed.

Part of the reason we wanted to give OKW early faust is so that we can make early light vehicles scale in a meaningful way, without turning on the neon signs, and inviting people to walk over OKW with them. That's the same logic as behind Brits, Light Vehicles and PIATs.

Fun facts:
- M3A1 target size: 18
- Target size at Vet3: 12.6
- Target size at Vet3 with Overdrive active: 9.45

Kubeljesus received accuracy at vet5: 9.94

Just a word of caution to everybody:

If you see Handheld AT weapons (e.g., panzerschreck) dealing inconsistent damage, please report this ASAP. The workaround I used to get the veterancy nerf in for those things was by screwing the damage model up and turning it into a PTRS-like one.

I have to reiterate, AT Satchels are beautiful.

This combo version is even better.

But man, forget about the PTRS...

I'd so much rather see Satchels and Demos be locked behind an HQ upgrade. Merge molotovs and AT nades into a conscript grenade package for like 30-40 fuel. Demos/Satchels could cost the same.

Also, the reduced vet of handheld AT is a great (and long overdue) change. I look forward to testing to ensure damage stays consistent.

Can we drop the whole werido Penal ptrs thing? Like, for real, stop. Tier 1 being a risk reward is... Gone. I have yet to see a community poll in favor of ptrs penals.

it's a toss up but those coh1 veteran tears are perhaps a tad sweeter and more nourishing to my being than the patch notes

We did give PIATs homing projectile. Perhaps that will be enough to help Brit early game, perhaps it won't. At the very least, you won't be seeing cancerous PIAT spammerinos in the late-game.

Regarding AT nade:
- That would very likely require us to rebalance Tommies (since they now become generalists)
- And it would also definitely require us to rebalance Comets/Cromwells

You will see more PIAT blobs now they home, not less. I for one don't build them and near every match I watch by dane/GG they are never used!

PIAT change will help a lot but no where near as much as a snare would have.

Why would it require a Tommy re balance? Riflemen get nades,smoke,bars,zooks,AT nades,5 men squads and can fight decently out of cover. Not a snarky question, just an honest one, why would it require such a drastic re balance?

Vehcile comes near range, tommies move out of cover to snare it, lose all bonus, get kited and attacked by infantry, fall back into cover and most likely lose the fight due to no cover bonus, riflemen can at least survive this scenario much better than UKF.

Again why would it require you to re balance the tanks just because the infantry has an AT nade? I've yet to hear anyone moan about the comet/cromwell but say its fine because they have no snare...

Lastly, I saw your post on the ninja changes and it said you added muni to recon, please tell me this is not the UKF command vehicle recon, if so, why? You have just killed the ability now the UC can't be used either and the vehicles STILL move and fire stupidly slow.

So giving fresh squads Bazookas will no longer let them catch up very fast? :c