Balance for infiltration squads badly needed?

Partisons with PPSH able to kill even SturmPio squad 1 vs 1. All partisons have supercamo. They have mines. Only 2 CP . Spammable

In team games they are totally OP. Wanna make them more cheaper???

When I complained about Partysan reinforcement cost, I was specifically referring to the squad that has models that cost 35MP to reinforce.

Are we even talking about the same squad???

PPSh Partysons: 26MP to reinforce (OK), 210MP to call in (way too cheap)
AT Partysons: 35MP to reinforce, 2 pop per head (More than PGrens, LOL WHAT?), 270MP to call in (too cheap)

Out of all the problems you've ever faced with Partysans, did you ever have issues countering them after they have spawned? Especially in teamgames? Or is your complaint all about HOW they spawn?

I would suggest the following.

1) The units does not spwan immediately it has a build time. Thus it requires some plating and not a push of button
2) Replace their grenades with anti-garrison grenades (DOT)allowing the enemy to react.
3) The same units can be build from HQ without the premium
4)Maybe offer weapon upgrade similar to S.T. one of the only spawn units that creates little problems.
5) Make AT snare been on cooldown on spawn.

Well thats a bit rich, considering that sniper game-play often very frustrating to play against.

With the upcoming penial AT upgrade, Homing PIATS, the puma aimed shot nerf, and your nerf to Jager Inf, how do you suggest OKW counter frustrating sniper play?

Where did I mention nerfs for Jaeger Light inf? I buffed them with a MP cost reduction Their G43 still can one shot any sniper! They have access to sprint burst at vet 0.. you still have panzerfusiliers..

you really think its frustrating to counter snips cos you cant do cheesy wipes with "behind the lines spawn"?

When I complained about Partysan reinforcement cost, I was specifically referring to the squad that has models that cost 35MP to reinforce.

Are we even talking about the same squad???

PPSh Partysons: 26MP to reinforce (OK), 210MP to call in (way too cheap)
AT Partysons: 35MP to reinforce, 2 pop per head (More than PGrens, LOL WHAT?), 270MP to call in (too cheap)

Out of all the problems you've ever faced with Partysans, did you ever have issues countering them after they have spawned? Especially in teamgames? Or is your complaint all about HOW they spawn?

Yess ffs In team games they are especially potent coz In first mniutes of any match up is important to get better map control and position. So Its HMgs In buildings and Mortars. TO caunter this Axis do Indirect fire and Light vehicals. And All partisons do their job good Wiping team weapons and snare Light vehicals.

If there will be changes that Axis team weapon cannon be wiped at 2 CP is good. But Other shit stays Coz Light vehical have to go into enemy territory to clear the path for infantry that were stopped by HMGs and there the problem gonna stay with SHreckParty

Where did I mention nerfs for Jaeger Light inf? I buffed them with a MP cost reduction Their G43 still can one shot any sniper! They have access to sprint burst at vet 0.. you still have panzerfusiliers..

you really think its frustrating to counter snips cos you cant do cheesy wipes with "behind the lines spawn"?

I don't think that any sniper-wiping infiltration squads really any help at all in WBP. With the changes to stealth, any infiltration squad spawning on top of the sniper will almost always guarantee a dead sniper.

Come on people. Cheese harder in WBP, so that more things enter The Scope D;

Not a fan of the timer option. That kills some strategic play, denying garrisons to the enemy at key moments.
Plus twenty seconds is so long that you would be in middle of other things and you'd eventually check your newly spawned squad and find them all as bags of skin, wriggling around in the dirt, squirming for their last breath with which to utter "why me?"

I think the better options are a cooldown on grenades, like jaegers have with infiltration nades, and/or they spawn with vanilla weapons and require upgrades, but adjust base price to compensate for the weapons upgrades as they are in decent place cost wise, particularly now you can't check status of a garrison through fog of war anymore.

Not a fan of the timer option. That kills some strategic play, denying garrisons to the enemy at key moments.
Plus twenty seconds is so long that you would be in middle of other things and you'd eventually check your newly spawned squad and find them all as bags of skin, wriggling around in the dirt, squirming for their last breath with which to utter "why me?"

I think the better options are a cooldown on grenades, like jaegers have with infiltration nades, and/or they spawn with vanilla weapons and require upgrades, but adjust base price to compensate for the weapons upgrades as they are in decent place cost wise, particularly now you can't check status of a garrison through fog of war anymore.

Anyone remembers the vCoH fallschirmjaegers?
- Kar98k at start which can be upgraded to FG42
- a grenade which was meant to clear out buildings only

It was the dream

Also, I've played many modded games where infiltration units, I repeat, "in-filllt-ration units" can only spawn in your own territory. The element of fun was decreased by a significant factor and it made no sense given that this was their raison d'etre as call-in infiltration units, I repeat... in-filt-ration units.

Yeah I totally agree.. if we change all infiltration units to the model of stormtroopers or vCoH falls, it would be totally fine. Then we dont need this "spawn in your own territory" or "spawn delay" nerf.

I just think that this is not easy to implement if you are not a relic programmer?

Good changes.

Regarding AT Partisans - what about them having to upgrade their Panzerschreck for let's say 60 munitions?

That way their potential cheesy vehicle wipe skills are reduced and it also reduces the soviet's problem with floating munitions (at least on that commanders).

What do you think?

Where did I mention nerfs for Jaeger Light inf? I buffed them with a MP cost reduction , Their G43 still can one shot any sniper!

So you call removing their key utility for a pittance cost reduction a buff?

Their scoped g43 can not one shot a sniper, do you know how its mechanics even work?

And so what if PF still exist, youre still removing one possible counter. Plus PF dont counter snipers, other than just being 6 men.

you really think its frustrating to counter snips cos you cant do cheesy wipes with "behind the lines spawn"?

Well isnt that a loaded question. And yes, OKW has no hard counter to snipers and you're just removing another counter from an already weak arsenal

Their scoped g43 can not one shot a sniper, do you know how its mechanics even work?

On penetration jaeger light infantry g43s have a critical that snipes infantry models between 0 and 75% health.

Except the reality of the matter is that Jaeger Light Infantry are armed with literally the same guns as Grenadiers, and the squad is given one of these sniping G43s when they are spawned.

Whether they hold onto this g43 forever is something I cannot attest to. I dunno if it gets lost when they pick up weapons or reinforce enough.

On penetration jaeger light infantry g43s have a critical that snipes infantry models between 0 and 75

Exactly, by definition it can't one shot a model

Yeah, that is technically true.

I think the only unit actually resistant to that shot are Shock Troops which have 1.5 armor still.

While we're at it if we're going to keep infiltration in then give it to Pathfinders as well please.

So you call removing their key utility for a pittance cost reduction a buff?

1: Their scoped g43 can not one shot a sniper, do you know how its mechanics even work?

And so what if PF still exist, youre still removing one possible counter. Plus PF dont counter snipers, 2: other than just being 6 men.

Well isnt that a loaded question. And yes, 3: OKW has no hard counter to snipers and you're just removing another counter from an already weak arsenal

#1 So you want a 4 man sniper squad that insta wipes any squad it clicks on? do YOU know how its mechanics even work? 3 squad member fires, taking the sniper HP down to >75, last member fires, gets crit. basically, a one shotted sniper.

#2 6 men squads are impossible to take out with a sniper, if you can't use a 6 man squad to your advantage against a sniper then I'm sorry but thats your problem and not the games.

#3 If only you had a T0 vehicle that had a damage buff vs snipers, that would be helpful wouldn't it...

If you seriously rely on infiltration squads to kill a single unit then you really need to learn how to use stealth units and or flanking efficiently, not just A moving your whole army around the map/clicking on the retreating sniper.

Snipers require so much baby sitting that 90% of the time you will kill it without you even knowing if you play normally, it's impossible to use a sniper and fight on several points of the map, use that to your advantage, start several fights, locate the sniper, flank it whilst keeping the fight active and more intense in the area the sniper isn't.

Yeah I totally agree.. if we change all infiltration units to the model of stormtroopers or vCoH falls, it would be totally fine. Then we dont need this "spawn in your own territory" or "spawn delay" nerf.

I just think that this is not easy to implement if you are not a relic programmer?

It should be super-trivial to add this suggestion into a mod. The only forseeable issue I see with it is what happens to strong short-range units, like commandos.

If commandos spawn with rifles, say hello to double-bren commandos.

It should be super-trivial to add this suggestion into a mod. The only forseeable issue I see with it is what happens to strong short-range units, like commandos.

If commandos spawn with rifles, say hello to double-bren commandos.

Possible to have them start with weapons on a cool down? That's the only way I can see commandos working with the upgrade system even though its an awful suggestion.

My suggestion augmented from others:

3 different squad costs:

#1 Spawn from base (300MP)
#2 Parachute in (350MP) *All but the party units
#3 Spawn from buildings (400MP) *All but USF Airborne

Obviously the costs are just an example but it gives a reason to call in units from your base other than misclicking on a building and allows infiltration units to be called in on maps with limited or poorly placed buildings.

Personally, I feel like infiltrators should come out with just normal old rifles and pay a pittance in munis to upgrade to their weapon of choice, kind of like Storms for Ost are now.

Combine that with 'nades starting on cooldown and they'd go from cheese units to ambushers requiring a bit of foresight.

+1

i dont like spending alot of time and effort destroying houses. especially those stone building are a head ache

Your ideas are good, some even very good, they should work really well BUT
as you said spawing units in houses make especially sniper game-play often very frustrating - yes true BUT

1 cons: This is one of valuable strats as okw to counter ally snipers. In balance patch we took puma ability to snipe infantry (was cheese as f*ck and dumb but still it was a way to deal with a sniper). Nothing much left to counter it.

If you gonna do those changes may i suggest an upgrade for obers with a sniper rifle (like Tommies had in vCoH1), with of course cammo and accuracy buffs to make sure that this upgrade is worth taking.