Balance for infiltration squads badly needed?

I dont wanna say that infiltration squads are OP (because I think most of them aren't) in this thread BUT they are cheesy.

Why?

- if you spawn them in the retreat path of almost dead squads or snipers, it is a guaranteed wipe most of the time.. you often can't do anything about it

--> this makes especially sniper game-play often very frustrating

- same for weapon crews: guaranteed wipe thanks to insta-ready grenades

- special problem with AT Partisans : stealth on top of snares, shreck and AT grenade for 270 mp.. wtf is this pudding?


My Balance suggestions:

- Infiltration inf can only be spawned in Buildings in your own territory

- the moment they spawn, all grenades have a cooldown of 20 sec before they can be used (for the first time!)

- MP cost reductions: - Falls/commandos : 440 to 380
- Partisans: 210 to 180
- AT Partisans: 270 to 240
- Stormtroopers: 340 to 300
- Jaeger Light Inf: 300 to 280


And pls dont tell me that you can counter them with mined doors or flamers... some factions can't (USF usually doesnt have flamer nor mines; Wehrmacht has bad mines for this job; you need heavy flamers cos it takes hours with normal inf flamers from pio --> also not possible for every faction)


Pls give me some critcal feedback if you want.. Are these ideas good or complete rubbish because Infiltration inf gets over-nerfed or isnt too strong atm?

That's a good option. Partisans will require a cost recalibration regardless (they are definitely NOT worth 35MP per model); it's the dirt-cheap MP price that makes them an overkill.

Other alternatives are:
- Give a delay between issuing the infiltration command, and the squad actually spawning (say 20 seconds)
- Make the squad spawn with crap weapons, and they regain their default weapons after a delay has elapsed

All of your suggestions, plus give them a cooldown for their at nades, and normal grenades, maybe even make them spawn on neutral territory, not the enemy. It would make some sense. Cheers

That's a good option. Partisans will require a cost recalibration regardless (they are definitely NOT worth 35MP per model); it's the dirt-cheap MP price that makes them an overkill.

Other alternatives are:
- Give a delay between issuing the infiltration command, and the squad actually spawning (say 20 seconds)
- Make the squad spawn with crap weapons, and they regain their default weapons after a delay has elapsed

I had this idea with delayed spawn also, but what if an enemy squad goes into the Building during these 20 sec? ^^

The delay on abilities is important.

AT partizans should have a rapidly researched AT weapon. That unit upgrade would require a bit of a munitions threshold and a limited timer for just lolschrecking. It would open the unit up to more stealthy mine laying than just jumping out to finish a retreating vehicle. It could also require them to be in friendly territory if that's suitable.

That's a good option. Partisans will require a cost recalibration regardless (they are definitely NOT worth 35MP per model); it's the dirt-cheap MP price that makes them an overkill.

Other alternatives are:
- Give a delay between issuing the infiltration command, and the squad actually spawning (say 20 seconds)
- Make the squad spawn with crap weapons, and they regain their default weapons after a delay has elapsed

Isn't it possible to deploy falls the same way para's are deployed when called in, perhaps with smaller drop zone akin to the one para's have when being dropped near an airdrop beacon?
It always bugged me that despite their name being Fallschrim they just spawn in houses, especially since the animation is already there for usf para's.

Regarding the reinforcement cost of partisans; I always just assumed that this was intended, as in you get 1 chance at a wipe, but with the trade off being that for the remainder of the match you suffer from high mp bleed the more partisans you field, great to close the match but a horrible idea if it might take another 45 min.

Great idea. On maps like Liernoux I can just spawn Commandos behind Wehr defenses and insta wipe MG's, Paks, Mortars, all with one squad. Feels pretty cheesy and broken.

Waht about faust/at nade ?

i like it, but forcing them to spawn in owned territory defeats the purpose of infiltration in the first place... maybe they can deploy from ambient buildings as long as no enemy units within a certain range?

love the grenade/ability cooldown idea. that will really reduce the cheese.

- Give a delay between issuing the infiltration command, and the squad actually spawning (say 20 seconds)

I was gonna come in here to suggest this one, seems like a good way to do it. Only problem is if someone enters the building, what happens then? If that turns out to be unit-breaking, we could go with your alternative and have them heavily penalized for 5 - 10 seconds.

I was gonna come in here to suggest this one, seems like a good way to do it. Only problem is if someone enters the building, what happens then? If that turns out to be unit-breaking, we could go with your alternative and have them heavily penalized for 5 - 10 seconds.

If somebody enters the building, it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is whether the building is occupied 20 seconds or so after the command is issued; if the building is occupied, the squad spawns from the corner of the map. If it isn't the unit exits the building.

I am only suggesting this one so that it's easy to implement

If somebody enters the building, it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is whether the building is occupied 20 seconds or so after the command is issued; if the building is occupied, the squad spawns from the corner of the map. If it isn't the unit exits the building.

I am only suggesting this one so that it's easy to implement

Well fair enough then, sounds good to me. I was just worried about it being buggy since they occupy the building itself for a split second to exit it. I wasn't sure if an enemy in the building at the same time would force them to come from off-map instead or somehow break the building. In CoH1 I managed to get 2 enemies in the same building and one player was not able to select the building or his unit, so they were trapped inside.

IMO all of those units should be inserted on the map like commandos or paras.

but I know this won't happen, then we have a plethora of things that can be done.

1. all units spawn with normal weapons and needs to be upgraded (like stormtroops), although some of them need to free, the upgrade would just be so you can't just plop a unit and faceroll someone instantly with automatic weapons.

2. since I KNOW relic is too lazy/dumb to do the above, just spawn units with a debuff with half speed and half accuracy.

3. make units spawn only on occupied buildings.

This thread makes me happy, all proposed changes get a thumbs up from me. I'd rather remove the mechanic altogether and replace it with an ability to hide the squads in a building, but that would never happen and would bring up even more questions/problems than it answers

--> this makes especially sniper game-play often very frustrating

Well thats a bit rich, considering that sniper game-play often very frustrating to play against.

With the upcoming penial AT upgrade, Homing PIATS, the puma aimed shot nerf, and your nerf to Jager Inf, how do you suggest OKW counter frustrating sniper play?

Personally, I feel like infiltrators should come out with just normal old rifles and pay a pittance in munis to upgrade to their weapon of choice, kind of like Storms for Ost are now.

Combine that with 'nades starting on cooldown and they'd go from cheese units to ambushers requiring a bit of foresight.

The major issue is that their abilities can be used instantly after spawning which I think should definitely be changed. Its stupid that you can instantly spawn behind a unit and throw your AT nade, bundle nade or your gammon bomb and get the kill with little effort required. What are players supposed to do dedicate 10 minutes to burn and destroy every building on your own side of the map?

This ability cooldown was successfully implemented with Jagers and their infiltration nades, no idea why it didn't translate to every other infiltration unit.

That's a good option. Partisans will require a cost recalibration regardless (they are definitely NOT worth 35MP per model); it's the dirt-cheap MP price that makes them an overkill.

Partisons with PPSH able to kill even SturmPio squad 1 vs 1. All partisons have supercamo. They have mines. Only 2 CP . Spammable

In team games they are totally OP. Wanna make them more cheaper???

Good ideas in here. The sure thing is that this units have to change!