WHY are soviets the center of winter balance patch

Dude, no... The Fuseliers are a call in for a reason.
Also, how will this affect commandos and other infiltration units?

Good riddance. nothing is bigger bs than controlling the whole map and having to blow up or wire all the houses to ensure you won't get TACTICALLY OUTPLAYED by some callin.

Or idk? make it only spawnable in any house that is within X meters of an allied unit so you can actually flank but you need to risk another unit for it.

Don't take the vocal minority of people whining on the forums who haven't played the mod as word that nobody likes the changes. People who are neutral or positive about the changes are less likely to comment, angry/negative people are always more likely to engage with any internet thing. Especially as those people are probably actually playing the mod instead of endlessly theory crafting on the forums.

10 people commenting on a thread isn't representative of the entire community.

lol, taking the liberty of considering silence as approval is just plain wrong. It's clear you guys are just going to look the other way and do whatever you like so why don't you just say that instead? I don't know how many people have flat out said that "X is bad idea" and then you come back with "well what about X with Y" instead of just removing the X. L2SayNo.

Let's see here, the infantry section, expensive as fuck at 280 man power for 4 peeps at the start, requires a how much was it now... ah yes, 25 fuel and 150 man power upgrade to get a 5th member added to their squad.

They're only pro is that they can build their own cover, compared to the Wehr's Grenadiers and the USF's Rifles who can only do that with a special doctrine ability.

Oh and that they can be armed with 2 brens, along with a shitty flare ability that is very UP and a med kit which is actually fairly good but their also only none doctrine healing ability, and isn't going to be too unique once the WBP goes live.

Its like you deliberately are trying to mislead people by not telling the whole picture. No one could do that, right?

You forget that the out of the gate, that the IS has high effective health, they have a .8 target size. Of course this only gets better as you vet up and get the extra man.

EHP	Vet0	Vet1	Vet2	Vet3
IS	400	400	519	519
IS 5Man	500	500	649	649
Grens	351	351	351	456
Volks	400	444	444	493

Also IS reaches maximum toughness at vet2, so its easier to get it to max vet.

You didnt mention this either because you're biased AF or dont even know the mechanics of this game.

Its like you deliberately are trying to mislead people by not telling the whole picture. No one could do that, right?

You forget that the out of the gate, that the IS has high effective health, they have a .8 target size. Of course this only gets better as you vet up and get the extra man.

EHP	Vet0	Vet1	Vet2	Vet3
IS	400	400	519	519
IS 5Man	500	500	649	649
Grens	351	351	351	456
Volks	400	444	444	493

Also IS reaches maximum toughness at vet2, so its easier to get it to max vet.

You didnt mention this either because you're biased AF or dont even know the mechanics of this game.

What's the point when they die like flies out of cover?

Poll needs to have more prominence on the coh2.org website. Perhaps putting a side widget on the site has more effect. Having access to the polls just having to enter the forum is something that many of the players did not do, perhaps because of lack of familiarity with the forum interface or even disinterest in entering the forum post to see the news.

( Sorry for my bad english comunity )

What's the point when they die like flies out of cover?

What does that have to do with anything, the penalties of being in and out of cover apply equally to all units.

Are you really asking what the point of effective HP is? I really dont know how to respond.

Good riddance. nothing is bigger bs than controlling the whole map and having to blow up or wire all the houses to ensure you won't get TACTICALLY OUTPLAYED by some callin.

The engine can only do so much mate.
If this is the case, pay maps that aren't urban.
My 4v4 experience, pulling off a tactical outplay is quite rare with infiltrators.

lol, taking the liberty of considering silence as approval is just plain wrong. It's clear you guys are just going to look the other way and do whatever you like so why don't you just say that instead? I don't know how many people have flat out said that "X is bad idea" and then you come back with "well what about X with Y" instead of just removing the X. L2SayNo.

No!

mechanics of this game.

And you can say "No you are wrong because of X" without being an ass.

He has a point below. IS have penalties on the move out of cover, Axis not so much (unless its prostruppen))

What's the point when they die like flies out of cover?

??????????????????

meanwhile no brit nerfs xD

Lol really ? Then buff IS, they have 0 chance against volks. STG > lmg and if you ever manag it to cover he throw 1 grenade and you can go home.

Yes cromwell and comet are OP right now compared to their counterparts, but they are british only saving grade because they lack good light tank counter (maybe afterpatch AC will help, still lack of snare is hurting) and main line infantry that can fight outside cover.

im not kpen NotLikeThis

and lets be honest here, we all know that miragefla and the others do (NOT) care about nerfing brits as they either play ostheer or USF and thus have no issues with them as a faction, nor do they play 2v2 where brits are an even bigger problem. Hell, even kyle admitted (on your stream iirc) that allies (especially usf and brits) were slightly too strong. this was also supported by the fact that their winrate was quite above the average 1v1 axis winrate.

So what do they do? Give penals AT options so you dont have to go the AT HQ as soviets to get ZiS gun and instead just rely on penals with ptrs to deal with early armor. I mean, back in the day (aka now) you could counter penals with a luchs or 222, now that is gone.. why? does miragefla want to get high rank with soviets too or what? May i remind you that miragefla also was the genius behind USF mortar (and we all know how that turned out to be !!)

Want my involvement? Sure, np, here you go:
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198000322345

are you seriously letting someone with less than 30 games of brits balance all 5 factions?

But wait, there is more !!

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197996299790

huh.. 60 games on brits, he must know the faction in and out !!


Anyway, my tips for relic:

- decrease maxim crew

- remove usf mortar

- permaban anyone involved in getting usf mortar in the game in the first place

- remove flamethrower for penals, they are good now as they are. give them grenades maybe? idk idc

- make repair option on OKW HQ cheaper OR buff it to make it a more viable option, now it's just ignored as sturmpio's do the same work for less fuel

- dont nerf snipers as hard as they are on balance mod.

- give brit mortar fuel cost or decrease the time and damage reduction from the brace stance. Remove the "get out of jail free" card idea of bracing. If a brit player wants to place a static mortar somewhere let him reap the rewards but also enjoy the downsides of it.

- remove all callin units. Only leave KT but keep it as it is with fuel costs and building requirements. OR leave callins in but also give negative (passive) abilities to these commanders so that players need to make a tradeoff between having a good callin unit + a reduction in X (fuel, manpower, muntiion idk?) or taking a callin-free commander which means that you have to rely on actually outplaying your opponent more than just calling in unit and winning !!!

- dont make PIAT homing, it requires micro now and that's how it should be. Don't give those disgusting usf abusers another freelo faction to play. USF players are beatable cause they, in most cases, lack a brain or have low apm. If you give them brits for free like this the winrate will go up even more :')

There you go! i fixed the game.

Lol you´re biased. Why then also schrecks should´t require micro to hit ? By your logic they should also require some kind of micro. Right now PIAT is bad because they nerfed range so you can kite even easier.

If you want to nerf OP units also nerf sturmtiger, nerf obers - vet4, make leigt and pak43 cost fuel as well so you get punished when it fights, and so on and so on. Allies are not the only ones who want nerfs

Hmm, it was 25 before the buff to it's price I think.

Or was it 15? Idk it was something with 5.

No its 35, I know it really well because I play main brits

What does that have to do with anything, the penalties of being in and out of cover apply equally to all units.

Are you really asking what the point of effective HP is? I really dont know how to respond.

Let you me spell it out for you to understand.

THE IS ARE HANDICAPPED MORE THAN OTHER UNITS WHILE OUT OF COVER, THEY'RE USELESS AND DIE LIKE FLIES WHEN OUT OF COVER.

Their "bonus" is a con in general and they're basically confined to cover in order to reach their normal effectiveness and to be in green cover to reach their full effectiveness while other squads' DPS is not tampered while in the same situation as them. Of course this is excluding the Osttruppen since they are more less in the same situation as the IS but unlike them they are not basic mainline infantry that's available by default and seen in every game.

Let you me spell it out for you to understand.

THE IS ARE HANDICAPPED MORE THAN OTHER UNITS WHILE OUT OF COVER, THEY'RE USELESS AND DIE LIKE FLIES WHEN OUT OF COVER.

Their "bonus" is a con in general and they're basically confined to cover in order to reach their normal effectiveness and to be in green cover to reach their full effectiveness while other squads' DPS is not tampered while in the same situation as them. Of course this is excluding the Osttruppen since they are more less in the same situation as the IS but unlike them they are not basic mainline infantry that's available by default and seen in every game.

Thats false dude IS still perform average outside of cover but the cover bonus is a 'bonus' its not there to make them perform normally its there to give them the advantage when engaging from behind cover. I think you are getting mixed up with the moving accuracy penalty on IS who are extremely inaccurate whilst moving (35%) whilst gren are (50%).

Let you me spell it out for you to understand.

THE IS ARE HANDICAPPED MORE THAN OTHER UNITS WHILE OUT OF COVER, THEY'RE USELESS AND DIE LIKE FLIES WHEN OUT OF COVER.

You mean instead of out damaging their competition they merely do the same damage as their competition. That isnt a huge handicap.

Lol really ? Then buff IS, they have 0 chance against volks. STG > lmg and if you ever manag it to cover he throw 1 grenade and you can go home.

Stgs don't do that much damage. They do as much damage as a rifleman's grand.

Volk kar98: 1.93 / 4.94
Volk STG: 1.99 / 8.27 (a +0.06/3.33 dps improvement)

IS 303: 3.08 / 5.22
IS Bren: 6.34 / 5.90 (a +3.26/0.7 dps improvement)

So yes STGs might be superior up close, but volks lack the durability to close the distance. Unless one is able to ambush the IS, Brens are the superior choice.

Machine, Stop arguing with people that didnt even took the time to install the winter balance mod, and didnt understood that you had a limited scope allowed by Relic

Polls needs to have more prominence on the coh2.org website. Perhaps putting a side widget on the site has more effect. Having access to the polls just having to enter the forum is something that many of the players did not do, perhaps because of lack of familiarity with the forum interface or even disinterest in entering the forum post to see the news.

( Sorry for my bad english comunity )

I agree that there should be some kind of link here. I understand that it's not in .org's interest to send people from this site to another however it's certainly possible that we could be extending the polls to this site and relaying data to Relic if that isn't happening already.

It is not Relic's job to sit around and wait for you all to get involved in the polls. They will work to their deadlines with the data they can collect added to the data they already have from tournaments etc on current state of balance.

My advice would be to go and vote for what is available currently, and if you think that other balance issues need addressing on the next run, leave that feedback in the appropriate place

Go and vote for British rebalance if that's what you want.

Instead of whining here go and vote on the polls that Relic are putting out that are prioritising the games balance

If people here aren't voting for the changes they want, then they don't have a right to complain about where the game is going Mr. Kpen.

Get involved

Hey I'm Kpen Keepo

The short answer is that we have put every possible effort to make all combinations of opening tiers viable/competitive with respect to one another.

The reasons why Penals appeared to monopolize our interest in v1.3 are:
- T1 is the most problematic tier. If we do this wrong you will either never see T1 again, or you will only ever see T1.
- We always intended to trial balanced Penal Flamers, sprinkled with PPSh. However, none of the protypes we have developed until WBP v1.4 were satisfactory for various reasons (Pinata flamers, shock-troop invalidation, etc, etc)
- Without any special ability to set them apart, Penals would be a boring unit. To visualise what a boring unit looks like, think of Rangers (and maybe even take out Ranger Thompsons).

As the other guys already alluded, we will be taking a closer look at the super-light vehicles for v1.4. WBP has been out for 3 weeks now, and each week focuses on one particular aspect, so that we can get things right. In order to get v1.0, this required a collective effort of about 3-4 weeks on top of that, with internal testing and finetuning.

This is why the scope of each update might look very narrow-minded/obsessive in comparison to the overarching scope of the WBP cycle.

I agree that there should be some kind of link here. I understand that it's not in .org's interest to send people from this site to another however it's certainly possible that we could be extending the polls to this site and relaying data to Relic if that isn't happening already.

It is not Relic's job to sit around and wait for you all to get involved in the polls. They will work to their deadlines with the data they can collect added to the data they already have from tournaments etc on current state of balance.

My advice would be to go and vote for what is available currently, and if you think that other balance issues need addressing on the next run, leave that feedback in the appropriate place

I agree with you, and I'm hoping that this initiative will not intimidate the hatters. I've played a lot of RTS and MOBAS and I see CoH a huge potential to become an excellent e-sports. I'm glad to see people struggling not to let this game go to the "tomb." Whenever possible I contribute feedback. I go into the forums and try to keep up with the news, and although I know that if the community wants change, it has to mobilize, the more practical and easy it is to see a product or service for a client, the more likely it is to get involved, I believe that if there is little community action on feedback, they should try to make voting easier to see if they have a better outcome.

Thats false dude IS still perform average outside of cover but the cover bonus is a 'bonus' its not there to make them perform normally its there to give them the advantage when engaging from behind cover. I think you are getting mixed up with the moving accuracy penalty on IS who are extremely inaccurate whilst moving (35%) whilst gren are (50%).

You are the one been confused.
Tommies have a debuff of *1.4 reload and *1.2 cooldown while OUT of cover. Tommies have a *0.25 accuracy and *1.5 cooldown multiplier while moving
Vet1 RE gain 0.5 reload n 0.3 cooldown while IN cover

PD: values might be off by 0.1 if i didn't remember correctly.

As the other guys already alluded, we will be taking a closer look at the super-light vehicles for v1.4.

So there's hope for M3, 250, Greyhound, Dodge and Kubel (vet requirements at least as starter)

I was wondering at the beggining, since the scope is light vehicles, why they weren't include?
PD: same with my SU flare sniper suggestion. I mean it should enter in the stealth mechanic department right ?

I was wondering at the beggining, since the scope is light vehicles, why they weren't include?
PD: same with my SU flare sniper suggestion. I mean it should enter in the stealth mechanic department right ?

Unfortunately further sniper changes are out of scope. I'm all in favour though of giving SU Sniper flare at vet0 and replace Vet1 with tripwire flares; for consistency.

The reason why we didn't want to touch commander-specific stuff so far, is because we wanted people to try and abuse boring no-brainer meta. I mean, as opposed to typical Competitive Mod audience that play the mode to try out the non-meta stuff.

As the other guys already alluded, we will be taking a closer look at the super-light vehicles for v1.4. WBP has been out for 3 weeks now, and each week focuses on one particular aspect, so that we can get things right. In order to get v1.0, this required a collective effort of about 3-4 weeks on top of that, with internal testing and finetuning.

If you guys going to look on very-light vechicle, please spend some time and add with this changes this QoL change:
Show Spoiler

It will help to player better analizing the moment, when his opponent get light tanks on the field. And, of course, clarify where his kubelwagen (for example) and where is his Puma.

P.S. Sorry for offtop