Lol it is as I feared. These modders now think all of their wettest dreams are soon to be realized.
Relic Winter Balance Preview v1.3 Update
17 Dec 2016, 15:34 PM
#101
Posts: 2066
Kappa
17 Dec 2016, 15:36 PM
#102
1 
Posts: 1838 | Subs: 17
I agree with most people here that Penals simply do not need PTRS. T1 is not supposed to have AT. As Budwise said you should be punished if you attempt to be greedy with penal spam and then get hard countered with a light vehicle. You want it so that guards are not the automatic choice? Make them non-doctrinal, put them in tier 3 or something and then spice up the commander roster a bit.
17 Dec 2016, 16:05 PM
#103
Posts: 1487
need something that would make them work without guards (or guards in tech). Penals are good candidates, even if that would mean these units somewhat overlap.
+1
These standart double 222 with option to get 3-4, or okw LV rushes. Is uncounterable without guards. Even zis+mines isnt enough.
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17 Dec 2016, 16:07 PM
#104
1 
Posts: 2885
As last two sets of patches concentrated on T1 and penal design I have created a poll where you guys can vote for your favourite soultion out of the ones proposed to this moment. Here is the poll and good luck for the option of your choice:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/58098/comunnity-poll-for-t1-penals-design
https://www.coh2.org/topic/58098/comunnity-poll-for-t1-penals-design
17 Dec 2016, 16:13 PM
#105
Posts: 323 | Subs: 1
if you retreat the assgren during throwing the grenades there is a chance it stays stuck and start throwing grenades for eternity. not really sure if it was pure bad luck it happend or if it is reproduceable
17 Dec 2016, 16:13 PM
#106
Posts: 181
I agree with most people here that Penals simply do not need PTRS. T1 is not supposed to have AT. As Budwise said you should be punished if you attempt to be greedy with penal spam and then get hard countered with a light vehicle. You want it so that guards are not the automatic choice? Make them non-doctrinal, put them in tier 3 or something and then spice up the commander roster a bit.The view expressed by Budwise is a pretty accurate description of strategic concepts behind the Tier. Making guards non-doctrinal is also a welcome suggestion, if not a bit intrusive.
17 Dec 2016, 16:18 PM
#107
1 Posts: 2885
Budwise overview is a pretty accurate description of strategic concepts behind the Tier. Making guards non-doctrinal is also a welcome suggestion, if not a bit intrusive.
We could always swap penals and guards so that penals were doctrinal and guards in T1. Then we could give guard PTRS to penals. This is intrusive but it solves some problems:
1. The problem of guard drop weapon pinata
2. The problem of guard doctrines being the only ones in meta
3. The problem of viability of T1
4. The problem of non-doc late game infantry for soviets.
And it doesnt give T1 AT apart from maybe the button.
Still some other problems may show up so I think long range weapon upgrade for penals is simpler, just as good or better and most importantly, in the scope of patch.
17 Dec 2016, 16:28 PM
#108
Posts: 295 | Subs: 1
Give penals 6 mosin rifles by default, with correct damage but slitly lower ROF but better long range accuracy, later give them upgrade for 3 SVT40 for 50 muni which will provide slightly better damage then Grenadier G43 with correct SVT40 accuracy stats for close\mid distance.
Leave them their Anti tank satchel but make it unlockable when you builded T2. Dont remove default one.
Regarding backteching - simply make T1\T2 cheaper in terms of fuel and build time when you already had builded T1\T2. This would punish soviets much less for backteching but at the same time wont allow them to have everything against everything at the same time. Wanna have AT guns? Right, go and backtech.
Wanna have fast light amor ? Right, lay mines or call-in guards but at the same time it wont be shit broken with guards bottom and at satchel.
Leave them their Anti tank satchel but make it unlockable when you builded T2. Dont remove default one.
Regarding backteching - simply make T1\T2 cheaper in terms of fuel and build time when you already had builded T1\T2. This would punish soviets much less for backteching but at the same time wont allow them to have everything against everything at the same time. Wanna have AT guns? Right, go and backtech.
Wanna have fast light amor ? Right, lay mines or call-in guards but at the same time it wont be shit broken with guards bottom and at satchel.
17 Dec 2016, 16:34 PM
#109
1 Posts: 2885
Simply make T1\T2 cheaper in terms of fuel and build time when you already had builded T1\T2.
If you want to acheive that effect, its easier to just make them both cheaper all the time and give soviets less starting resources. The change of starting resources should be equal to change of price on one building.
17 Dec 2016, 16:35 PM
#110
Posts: 3035 | Subs: 3
I fear that with these penal changes, soviet t1 will dominate any map type...
the PPSH + flamer upgrade will be paradise on urban maps..
and PTRS penals will make 1 or 2 soviet snipers close to incounterable for axis on open maps like Crossing in the woods
+ it entirely ruins the concept of conscripts and the lovely tank hunter doctrine for soviets imo
Soviets will be even more pain in the *** than before the balance changes
the PPSH + flamer upgrade will be paradise on urban maps..
and PTRS penals will make 1 or 2 soviet snipers close to incounterable for axis on open maps like Crossing in the woods
+ it entirely ruins the concept of conscripts and the lovely tank hunter doctrine for soviets imo
Soviets will be even more pain in the *** than before the balance changes
17 Dec 2016, 16:36 PM
#111
Posts: 2742
I actually found T1 stock Guards to function particularly well. I made it so PTRS upgrade for Guards was only unlocked with the Guard doc choice when I made a test mod for it. I had to make grenades unlock after molotovs AND at nades were researched because t1 noupgrade nades were silly.
But in the end that experiment only illustrated how the issue isn't really T1, it's T2.
The Penals with mosin rifles and an SVT upgrade, (individual or global) is actually a pretty good idea. But then again, something like stock 3 PPSh upgrade on conscripts has been warranted for years.
But in the end that experiment only illustrated how the issue isn't really T1, it's T2.
The Penals with mosin rifles and an SVT upgrade, (individual or global) is actually a pretty good idea. But then again, something like stock 3 PPSh upgrade on conscripts has been warranted for years.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
17 Dec 2016, 17:00 PM
#112
Posts: 37
I think there are bigger problems than the current points.
Maxims are currently the biggest game breaker. Why not fix this first?
Maxims are currently the biggest game breaker. Why not fix this first?
17 Dec 2016, 17:02 PM
#113
1 Posts: 2885
I think there are bigger problems than the current points.
Maxims are currently the biggest game breaker. Why not fix this first?
Maxim recived a huge nerf recently. It's way worse than it was in its former glory and it is not that hard to counter now.
17 Dec 2016, 17:06 PM
#114
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
And what if we gave russians M42 once they tech for tier3 ?
17 Dec 2016, 17:40 PM
#115
Posts: 48
You can probably also go Pioneer-spam blobs. I am pretty sure you will be able to win the first few engagements, but you will start losing 3 minutes into the game.
What the HELL man?
Are you trolling?
Pioneers have ZERO access to ANY AT. There is no probably, it's not going to happen. This isn't CoH1, you're not going to make Pioneer spam happen just because you upped their accuracy by a tiny bit.
And you think Soviet Tier 1 is the most problematic in the game?
Are you out of your mind?
Why does Soviet Tier 1 have to equal (or exceed) other nations Tier 1 WHEN THEY HAVE THE FREAKING CHOICE OF BUILDING TIER 2 IMMEDIATELY. Not a single other nation has this opportunity, especially when it comes to quickly fielding cheap, effective anti-tank.
Honestly, this is ridiculous at this point.
I have yet to see even CLOSE to a majority support this current direction of your balance patches. I see tons and tons of people scratching their heads and starting to get worried if you should be allowed anywhere NEAR this game in terms of balance decisions.
17 Dec 2016, 17:56 PM
#116
Posts: 2066
I have always said that Relic is digging their own grave, one patch at a time. You modders seem to be in more of a hurry, it seems like you guys are digging entire tombs to kill off CoH2 in one patch lol.
Kappa
17 Dec 2016, 18:30 PM
#117
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
I propose discount for T2 once T1 is built (and other way around as well) without adding anything.
Once T1/T2 is up, T2/T1 is cheaper for let's say 40-50%, so if you need AT you just tech up.
PTRS for Penals out of every possible solutions is the worst one, sorry.
___
Tho I'm still for M-42
Once T1/T2 is up, T2/T1 is cheaper for let's say 40-50%, so if you need AT you just tech up.
PTRS for Penals out of every possible solutions is the worst one, sorry.
___
Tho I'm still for M-42
17 Dec 2016, 18:40 PM
#118
Posts: 2742
It's a good idea, but the discount is pretty negligible. T1 and T2 are already cheap.
Now that I think about it, I wonder if it would be more appropriate to give T3 a reduction in price if BOTH t1 and t2 are built. The necessity to rush for T3 is pretty important to account for.
But honestly the more I think about it, the more I realize that this is actually a pretty heavy tangent to both the issues at hand and the scope of the patch.
Now that I think about it, I wonder if it would be more appropriate to give T3 a reduction in price if BOTH t1 and t2 are built. The necessity to rush for T3 is pretty important to account for.
But honestly the more I think about it, the more I realize that this is actually a pretty heavy tangent to both the issues at hand and the scope of the patch.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
17 Dec 2016, 19:02 PM
#119
Posts: 1389 | Subs: 1
I have found two bugs (?) with guards upgrades:
1. If you lose two DP, you will lose possibility to buy single DP (as result, your gurads will be without DP untill the end of the game)
2. You can use 2x PTRS-41 and 1x PTRS-41 upgrades only once. Then they will be locked as used.
P.S. I have tested it with Cheatmod, it can be a reason to incorrect work of guards upgrades.
1. If you lose two DP, you will lose possibility to buy single DP (as result, your gurads will be without DP untill the end of the game)
2. You can use 2x PTRS-41 and 1x PTRS-41 upgrades only once. Then they will be locked as used.
P.S. I have tested it with Cheatmod, it can be a reason to incorrect work of guards upgrades.
17 Dec 2016, 19:04 PM
#120
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
I have found two bugs (?) with guards upgrades:
1. If you lose two DP, you will lose possibility to buy single DP (as result, your gurads will be without DP untill the end of the game)
2. You can use 2x PTRS-41 and 1x PTRS-41 upgrades only once. Then they will be locked as used.
P.S. I have tested it with Cheatmod, it can be a reason to incorrect work of guards upgrades.
I'll have to recheck this. How did you make the guards models lose their weapons; killing them?
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
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