I use commandos a bit. Mostly i open an ambush with a light gammon bomb where possible. But I was wondering whether i should be using the smoke grenade instead in some situations.
I was wondering if anyone had done any testing on them?
-Do Commando smoke grenades give the -50% received accuracy buff to the enemy or just the commandos if both are in the smoke?
-Also does it block the enemies sight?
Commando smoke grenades
30 Oct 2016, 22:10 PM
#1
Posts: 19
30 Oct 2016, 22:18 PM
#2
Posts: 35
brits OP, reel manz play axis, generic racial slur. Not answer your question, disappear back into the internet...
Just covering that off so that someone can proceed to actually answer the question.
Just covering that off so that someone can proceed to actually answer the question.
31 Oct 2016, 04:11 AM
#3
Posts: 18 | Subs: 1
So, a couple things about those
1) They do not block line of sight - not great.
2) They provide yellow cover, which helps reduce suppression and by doing so facilitates the throwing of gammon bombs at MG crews.
3) I imagine it would be about the same as light brush, but the idea is (from what I can gather) that you'd be moving up through it rather than firing through it.
In my experience they are of extremely limited utility considering it takes time to throw and uses 15 munitions.
1) They do not block line of sight - not great.
2) They provide yellow cover, which helps reduce suppression and by doing so facilitates the throwing of gammon bombs at MG crews.
3) I imagine it would be about the same as light brush, but the idea is (from what I can gather) that you'd be moving up through it rather than firing through it.
In my experience they are of extremely limited utility considering it takes time to throw and uses 15 munitions.
31 Oct 2016, 21:53 PM
#4
Posts: 19
Yeah I feel like by the time you throw smoke then a gammon bomb, the element of surprise is gone and enemy has chance to dodge gammon. might as well open with a gammon. i guess if it is open ground maybe eh.
I am still interested to know if it provides the yellow cover to the enemy units as well:
-if the smoke provides yellow cover ONLY to the commandos it might be a viable option and give the edge in a close combat toe to toe.
-if it provides cover to ALL UNITS in the smoke i feel like its not that useful
I am still interested to know if it provides the yellow cover to the enemy units as well:
-if the smoke provides yellow cover ONLY to the commandos it might be a viable option and give the edge in a close combat toe to toe.
-if it provides cover to ALL UNITS in the smoke i feel like its not that useful
31 Oct 2016, 23:05 PM
#5
Posts: 930
in that case it still useful, since the commandos smgs are superior to pretty much everything else on the game.
I think the only useful thing you can use for is for crossing exposed cover on maps like crossing the river or road to karkhov. Kholodiny ferma also have a lot of exposed cover.
I think the only useful thing you can use for is for crossing exposed cover on maps like crossing the river or road to karkhov. Kholodiny ferma also have a lot of exposed cover.
1 Nov 2016, 00:06 AM
#6
Posts: 2066
Just vet them up using gammon bomb spam then they can pretty much run around cloaked from cover to cover and disappear right in front of other units. No need to smoke
Kappa
1 Nov 2016, 00:40 AM
#7
Posts: 19
reposting my main question:
-Do Commando smoke grenades give the -50% received accuracy buff to the enemy or just the commandos if both are in the smoke?
-Do Commando smoke grenades give the -50% received accuracy buff to the enemy or just the commandos if both are in the smoke?
1 Nov 2016, 07:52 AM
#8
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
Commando stealth works when in cover. Thus, in theory, you can use commando smoke nades to allow you to extend where you can stealth (e.g., in open ground).
In practice, throwing a grenade from stealth, will make commandos visible for 10 seconds. This is incidentally also the duration of the smoke. Thus, they are completely useless for that purpose.
Throwing the smoke grenade to provide cover for your commandos is also useless most of the time:
- The terrain is already filled with craters by the late-game
- Commando SMGs are extremely short-range. If you don't keep closing the distance to your target, you will get gunned down by pretty much anything.
- If you have to use smoke grenades to reduce incoming damage to your commandos, you are using them wrong. Commandos should be closing in either by stealthing, or by using the sprint bonus from ambush.
Yes. Everybody benefits from cover.
In practice, throwing a grenade from stealth, will make commandos visible for 10 seconds. This is incidentally also the duration of the smoke. Thus, they are completely useless for that purpose.
Throwing the smoke grenade to provide cover for your commandos is also useless most of the time:
- The terrain is already filled with craters by the late-game
- Commando SMGs are extremely short-range. If you don't keep closing the distance to your target, you will get gunned down by pretty much anything.
- If you have to use smoke grenades to reduce incoming damage to your commandos, you are using them wrong. Commandos should be closing in either by stealthing, or by using the sprint bonus from ambush.
reposting my main question:
-Do Commando smoke grenades give the -50% received accuracy buff to the enemy or just the commandos if both are in the smoke?
Yes. Everybody benefits from cover.
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https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
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1 Nov 2016, 20:36 PM
#9
Posts: 19
Cheers mr Smith.
If the smoke is providing 'cover' and not a 'buff' specific to commandos
seems pretty pointless if that is the case.
The way i could see it working was that you basically throw the smoke grenade right onto your enemy and advance on them.
(as you have to be pretty much right next to them to do anything practical with commandos)
if you both benefit from that cover it makes that fight better for the enemy as they are not moving.
the logic i would have thought was that commandos are trained to fight inside smoke, enemy troops are not.
alternatively - i guess if everyone benefits you could use the smoke to assist your tommies fighting at range. but meh not worth the reveal
If the smoke is providing 'cover' and not a 'buff' specific to commandos
seems pretty pointless if that is the case.
The way i could see it working was that you basically throw the smoke grenade right onto your enemy and advance on them.
(as you have to be pretty much right next to them to do anything practical with commandos)
if you both benefit from that cover it makes that fight better for the enemy as they are not moving.
the logic i would have thought was that commandos are trained to fight inside smoke, enemy troops are not.
alternatively - i guess if everyone benefits you could use the smoke to assist your tommies fighting at range. but meh not worth the reveal
1 Nov 2016, 20:47 PM
#10
Posts: 632 | Subs: 1
Giving them a regular smoke grenade would be much better. Alternatively, a White Phosphorous grenade similar to the Obersoldaten's Blendkörper might be nice!
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1 Nov 2016, 21:30 PM
#11
Posts: 19
yeah.
or perhaps make the smoke grenade an instant pop. (like the armoured car one)
i can only ever really see this defence smoke being of any use at the commandos feet due to their short range. which is why having it as a commando only buff would be good. giving the defence to the enemy seems silly.
(and before axis players cry OP. maybe swap them and move the gammon bomb to vet1?)
the drop in dps to do the throw animation makes it not worthwhile during a close quarters fight unless you open the ambush with the smoke and charge in.
dunno. the smoke just seems not very useful in its current form.
or perhaps make the smoke grenade an instant pop. (like the armoured car one)
i can only ever really see this defence smoke being of any use at the commandos feet due to their short range. which is why having it as a commando only buff would be good. giving the defence to the enemy seems silly.
(and before axis players cry OP. maybe swap them and move the gammon bomb to vet1?)
the drop in dps to do the throw animation makes it not worthwhile during a close quarters fight unless you open the ambush with the smoke and charge in.
dunno. the smoke just seems not very useful in its current form.
2 Nov 2016, 11:06 AM
#12
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
Giving them a regular smoke grenade would be much better. Alternatively, a White Phosphorous grenade similar to the Obersoldaten's Blendkörper might be nice!
- An ordinary smoke grenade would be OK
- White phosphorus grenade might be a bit of a mixed blessing for commandos.
For Obers/Falls the blendkörper nade kinda works since those guys are pretty good at long range. You throw your smoke, fall back, and the enemy can't pursue you through the smoke.
In my mod, I have made the Commandos smoke grenade simply not break stealth. That way, you can use the smoke grenade to extend where your commandos can relocate. Thus, the smoke grenade is kind of useful for setting up the first strike, but kind of useless after the commandos have been revealed.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
12 Feb 2017, 13:15 PM
#13
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
*necro*
Apparently Commando's smoke grenade (like all smoke grenades) spawns a shoot-through cover. This means that if something is shooting through the grenade, the target receives yellow cover (or better). Thus, they aren't completely useless.
PS: Don't throw the grenades too close to the enemy (10 yards), or their cover effect seems to be ignored
Apparently Commando's smoke grenade (like all smoke grenades) spawns a shoot-through cover. This means that if something is shooting through the grenade, the target receives yellow cover (or better). Thus, they aren't completely useless.
PS: Don't throw the grenades too close to the enemy (10 yards), or their cover effect seems to be ignored
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
26 Feb 2017, 02:30 AM
#14
Posts: 3053
*necro*
Apparently Commando's smoke grenade (like all smoke grenades) spawns a shoot-through cover. This means that if something is shooting through the grenade, the target receives yellow cover (or better). Thus, they aren't completely useless.
PS: Don't throw the grenades too close to the enemy (10 yards), or their cover effect seems to be ignored
Huh, interesting. Still not that great for commandos though. Might be worth using to cover an IS's advance. I'm guessing the answer is no, but if, for example, an IS is standing in light cover and a light smoke grenade is in between them and an attacker, will the effects stack in any way?
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26 Feb 2017, 10:58 AM
#15
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
Huh, interesting. Still not that great for commandos though. Might be worth using to cover an IS's advance. I'm guessing the answer is no, but if, for example, an IS is standing in light cover and a light smoke grenade is in between them and an attacker, will the effects stack in any way?
Not really. Cover types have priorities, and only the best one will apply.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
26 Feb 2017, 22:22 PM
#16
Posts: 3053
Not really. Cover types have priorities, and only the best one will apply.
Ok that's what I thought. Just wanted to be sure.
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28 Feb 2017, 02:02 AM
#17
Posts: 19
intradesting. thanks for chasing up Mr Smith.
yeah agree with loopDloop. this can only really be useful if you are assisting a different squad with cover.
commandos shooting at something > 10 yards is the equivalent of attacking with a light summer breeze =(
yeah agree with loopDloop. this can only really be useful if you are assisting a different squad with cover.
commandos shooting at something > 10 yards is the equivalent of attacking with a light summer breeze =(
6 Apr 2017, 20:22 PM
#18
Posts: 3053
intradesting. thanks for chasing up Mr Smith.
yeah agree with loopDloop. this can only really be useful if you are assisting a different squad with cover.
commandos shooting at something > 10 yards is the equivalent of attacking with a light summer breeze =(
Indeed. Weird to give a point blank squad a cover creation ability, since being point blank means ignoring cover on both sides anyway. IMO it'd be much better to give them a real smoke grenade, or even a copypasta of their original coh counterparts' smoke ability (miss those guys so much).
Edit: oh shit necro
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7 Apr 2017, 05:02 AM
#19
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Edit: oh shit necro
And thats why its going to get \locked
7 Apr 2017, 06:01 AM
#20
Posts: 851 | Subs: 1
And thats why its going to get \locked
Eh, it's a necro, but its not a Mr.S necro.
Plus I dont consider a necro somthing that is still relevant
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