Why did Panthers seem to work in Coh1 but not in Coh2

No it does not:
1)Blitzkrieg
-25% received accuracy, +35% speed, +60% acceleration.(*-25% received accuracy, +15% speed, +30% acceleration for Tiger and Panther tanks ONLY)
2)Combat Blitz
+100% accuracy, -50% received accuracy, +40% speed.

even if it provided accuracy it would not work that way 0.5*1.5=0.75

wait, correct me if i;m wrong, from what you texted if i want to hit a target (for example from a max range) WITHOUT MOVING i just click Combat Blitz, i get better accuracy and therefore increase the chance of hitting the enemy unit.

If this is true it can be really really usefull to finish enemy tanks, combat blitz, stop unit right before making a shot and watch enemy tank burns

wait, correct me if i;m wrong, from what you texted if i want to hit a target (for example from a max range) WITHOUT MOVING i just click Combat Blitz, i get better accuracy and therefore increase the chance of hitting the enemy unit.

If this is true it can be really really usefull to finish enemy tanks, combat blitz, stop unit right before making a shot and watch enemy tank burns

Yep. It works precisely that way.

What's even funnier is that the OKW Panther will fire more accurately with combat blitz on and moving, than with combat blitz off and stationary.

OKW Panther accuracy modifier when moving: -35% = 0.65
Combat blitz accuracy bonus +100% = 2x

Thus, with combat blitz on, OKW Panther accuracy modifier turns to 0.65 * 2 = 1.3. That's a 30% accuracy bonus, compared to being stationary. Not bad, eh?

thanks man for straighten this out. Wow that's a huge buff, cannot wait to test it in action

Yep. It works precisely that way.

What's even funnier is that the OKW Panther will fire more accurately with combat blitz on and moving, than with combat blitz off and stationary.

OKW Panther accuracy modifier when moving: -35% = 0.65
Combat blitz accuracy bonus +100% = 2x

Thus, with combat blitz on, OKW Panther accuracy modifier turns to 0.65 * 2 = 1.3. That's a 30% accuracy bonus, compared to being stationary. Not bad, eh?

I think thats what "combat" stands for. :-)

I wonder if it applies on stand still vehicles too?! Because the -50% received accuracy make things even funnier.

Basically your stand still Panther with combat blitz has twice the chance to hit anything, while everything have half the chance to hit the Panther. Too bad i rarely build Panthers with OKW, i would always use blitz in combats.

I think thats what "combat" stands for. :-)

I wonder if it applies on stand still vehicles too?! Because the -50% received accuracy make things even funnier.

Basically your stand still Panther with combat blitz has twice the chance to hit anything, while everything have half the chance to hit the Panther. Too bad i rarely build Panthers with OKW, i would always use blitz in combats.

Yes, the ability will work as advertised, even if your Panther remains stationary.

However, note that "missed" shots will spawn stray, non-homing, shells that act like the attack ground command. If you hold still, there is still a very high risk of those "stray" shots of hitting your Panther (and, thus, causing damage).

To reduce the chance of getting hit by those "stray" shells, try one of the following:
1. Try to have an obstacle (e.g., a fence, elevation) between you and the enemy.
- Assuming you have accuracy superiority, their shots are more likely to hit world objects than yours.
- I am not so sure about this, but the game files imply that that the obstacle needs to be within 10 meters from you, in order for the enemy's projectile to have a chance to collide with it. (this mechanic is worded extremely ambiguously)

2. Have a fast enough unit that reverses away from the target
- The Puma and the AEC which have very small scatter -- great for AI -- are notorious for having their shells land short of their targets).

3. Otherwise, assuming you have a small target profile, try to fight the enemy from a distance as great as possible
- Here, you rely on "angle scatter" to produce a random value large enough to miss your tank

Well Panthers and Axis tanks in general worked in Coh1 since they could effectively fight infantry. They could deal suppression and running straight into a tank or multiple tanks would yield questionable and very bad results when infantry and massed infantry was used. In CoH2, you can run straight at tanks with a blob of infantry and force it off, which was the problem with OKW shreck blobs and is now the problem with Allied wonder blobs. This is the biggest flaw with tanks in coh2.

You could vet your tanks with tech in vcoh. Not the case in coh2

Vs the Soviets, the panther wasnt bad, still isnt to be honest because its speed allows it to out-maneuver the slow turning SU-85.

However...

The ostheer panther was designed only with soviets in mind in terms of balance...

The USF and UKF both have tanks that are better, and in some case alot cheaper to tech to. + when you add silly things like Tulip rockets... i mean, panther really has no chance and is more of a waste of fuel.

But there is a few things that make axis armor underwhelming...

- Tulips (the stun is actually better than the extra damage they used to do).
- USF tank crews (keeps their tanks in the fight alot easier)
- Jackson range +AP
- Firefly range +AP
- Silly amount of artillery options (that negate weaponteams leaving armor unsupported)
- Guard button
- AT partisans (seems to be abit of a meta, if you know your enemy has them yeah u can burn down buildings, but still Axis dont have the option to pop out behind a retreating tank and wipe it out.)
- Comet speed - How much faster than a panther they are, and how they can quite easily run a panther down with no real risk to itself.
- Shit repair speed of pioneers.
- and finally the mother of all cheese.... Marked Target. (that even continues after you shoot the bloody aircraft down....)

I get the Jackson and firefly are dedicated tank destroyers, and should have such a high range and AP, but im not sure about the idea of them being able to 4 shot such an expensive tank and penetrating nearly every time, Same goes for the tiger to be honest. I think panther and tiger frontal armor is just too low... especially when having to deal with these high caliber tank destroyers which are cheaper to tech to than the panther, and have a much higher field presence.

Imo ud be better off with a StuG and a P4 for the same price of a panther + the cost to tech to it.

Panthers AND tigers should be an issue for the enemy.... yet its more of a "Lol look what they wasted their fuel on". - Fires tulips, either supports FF with an AT gun or just charges a comet behind it = Dead panther/tiger.

And before people say "you need to support them with Paks or shreks thats why"... two words.... Land Mattress...

http://hq-coh.com/stats/coh-stats.com/Weapon_75mm_Panther.html

very good L (long range) accuracy.. 0.65 accuracy on the move... 7-7 reload with no wind down shit.

It was clearly superier to the ostheer drunk panther.

The coh2 ostheer/okw panther is probably better than the wehr panther from coh1. Buyable MG, free vet, tank smoke, combat blitz, lower tech costs are all big improvements. The only downside is there are more powerful anti-tank options for the allies. Every allied faction has access to a long range tank destroyer (jackson/SU85/firefly).

It's just that PE panthers in coh1 were massively overpowered (only balanced out by the otherwise shitty PE faction in team games). 500MP no fuel per panther for a faction with very little upkeep, can you imagine that?

Overall, the panther is a good tank in coh2. It's just not versatile enough to play the role of main battle tank. It's a fast, expensive, and reasonably heavily armored tank destroyer.

Panthers seemed fine in Coh1 from what I can remember. They weren´t overpowered yet packed a punch. In Coh2 I have the feeling they go from one extreme (overpowered) to the other (absolutely useless) from patch to patch. Currently they are in the underpowered category again.

What do you think are the reasons they seemed way more balanced in Coh1 despite Wehrmacht vet that could be bought. Is it gimmicks like Blitzkrieg that make it harder to balance? Or did they simply get wrong stats? I can´t point my finger at it but would like to see Panthers like they were in Coh1 again.

lol 20 minute Panther Battle Group for PE in CoH1, was one of the biggest bullshit broken things in the game, then you could get another PBG for 1000 man power only looooool.

So, no Panthers were broken in CoH1, but in a different way to Coh2.

Vs the Soviets, the panther wasnt bad, still isnt to be honest because its speed allows it to out-maneuver the slow turning SU-85.

However...

The ostheer panther was designed only with soviets in mind in terms of balance...

The USF and UKF both have tanks that are better, and in some case alot cheaper to tech to. + when you add silly things like Tulip rockets... i mean, panther really has no chance and is more of a waste of fuel.

But there is a few things that make axis armor underwhelming...

- Tulips (the stun is actually better than the extra damage they used to do).
- USF tank crews (keeps their tanks in the fight alot easier)
- Jackson range +AP
- Firefly range +AP
- Silly amount of artillery options (that negate weaponteams leaving armor unsupported)
- Guard button
- AT partisans (seems to be abit of a meta, if you know your enemy has them yeah u can burn down buildings, but still Axis dont have the option to pop out behind a retreating tank and wipe it out.)
- Comet speed - How much faster than a panther they are, and how they can quite easily run a panther down with no real risk to itself.
- Shit repair speed of pioneers.
- and finally the mother of all cheese.... Marked Target. (that even continues after you shoot the bloody aircraft down....)

I get the Jackson and firefly are dedicated tank destroyers, and should have such a high range and AP, but im not sure about the idea of them being able to 4 shot such an expensive tank and penetrating nearly every time, Same goes for the tiger to be honest. I think panther and tiger frontal armor is just too low... especially when having to deal with these high caliber tank destroyers which are cheaper to tech to than the panther, and have a much higher field presence.

Imo ud be better off with a StuG and a P4 for the same price of a panther + the cost to tech to it.

Panthers AND tigers should be an issue for the enemy.... yet its more of a "Lol look what they wasted their fuel on". - Fires tulips, either supports FF with an AT gun or just charges a comet behind it = Dead panther/tiger.

And before people say "you need to support them with Paks or shreks thats why"... two words.... Land Mattress...

On the AT Partisans, shouldn't they really make so that they need to be upgraded. By all means make them cheaper to call in but also make them require to a clicked on to upgrade and 75 muni for a Shrek?

I mean in COH1 team games if you survived the Allied onslaught, vet 3 Axis tanks would eventually win you the game. It did happen in 1v1 too, but rarely. You just couldn't afford the vet in 1v1, not because of a lack of fuel, but because of a lack of manpower. There was the ever popular defense/med bunker strat that did get to vet Panthers occasionally because you were getting numerous zombie grens.

It was always acknowledged Axis had the better late game whereas US was much stronger early to mid. It was just part of the game and the community generally accepted it, whereas in COH2 everyone seems to have had much more of an issue with that design, mainly because Relic always said they were trying to balance across the entire length of the game.

I remember quite a few Montargis games where Axis was literally pushed off the map, with not even a fuel point and we managed to claw our way back with vet. That was annihilation mode though. And why people hated the vet system.

I gotta say, having lived through those days, I think that balance throughout the game rather than timeslice balance is the way to go. Besides, incentivizing the German player to turtle until his superior resources kicked in is precisely backwards, historically speaking. It's missing the war's forest for it's trees.

The best way it was put to me when I first started getting into vCoH was "Americans fight for VPs and to deny fuel. Wehrmacht fights for fuel and to slow the VP tick." Each side had different goals. With different goals that could ultimately win them the game, there was actually room for asymmetrical balance.