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About ISU-152

29 Aug 2016, 18:30 PM
#21
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

no, it's AP round is laughable. Bounce shot RNG for 8+ second reload. Could just get 2 SU-85 instead with more penetration, faster reload, and double the damage.

It needs penetration of 280 or something so that it's shots actually count against mediums.


No it does not.

Just get two SU85s if you have problems with ISU152.
For the sake of balance ISU shouldn't be units with huge range with great wiping potential and with awesome penetration. You can't have everything.

Right now it has great range, great AI and very decent AT. You are supposed to get other AT units if ISU is not enough, not just one units to counter everything. If you want to keep great AI, then AT has to be decent at max (which is). If you want better AT, then nerf AI but that would overlap with SU85.
nee
29 Aug 2016, 19:18 PM
#22
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

Was it really that OP that Relic had to make it swap HE/AP Or was that one of those random ideas Relic threw in that no one ever complained about?

I mean last I heard, pre-patch it was under-powered rather than over.
29 Aug 2016, 19:25 PM
#23
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2016, 19:18 PMnee
Was it really that OP that Relic had to make it swap HE/AP Or was that one of those random ideas Relic threw in that no one ever complained about?

it really was that op. it wiped infantry like nothing else, it killed tanks, it dominated matches.
29 Aug 2016, 19:55 PM
#24
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29

the trouble with the ISU is that it gets hard countered by elevation. Maybe artificially making where the shells are fired from higher off the ground might help?

The changing of shells could do with a shorter period of time for the sake of making it relevant. Oh and the pen should be increased for the AP shells, it should have more pen than an 85...


I agree the only thing I would change is to make it so it isn't completely defeated by the slightest elevation change.
29 Aug 2016, 19:56 PM
#25
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


it really was that op. it wiped infantry like nothing else, it killed tanks, it dominated matches.


Who didn't enjoyed ISU vs Ele pre WFA ? It was "SO FUN".
29 Aug 2016, 20:42 PM
#26
avatar of whitesky00

Posts: 468



No it does not.

Just get two SU85s if you have problems with ISU152.
For the sake of balance ISU shouldn't be units with huge range with great wiping potential and with awesome penetration. You can't have everything.

Right now it has great range, great AI and very decent AT. You are supposed to get other AT units if ISU is not enough, not just one units to counter everything. If you want to keep great AI, then AT has to be decent at max (which is). If you want better AT, then nerf AI but that would overlap with SU85.


Yes, that is the exact problem. For the cost of 1 ISU, I do and will always get 2 su-85s. Nobody uses isu-152 for any AT because it RNG bounces even p4. With 8+ seconds reload, it takes as long as a Firefly but fails to reliably penetrate and do damage. And, it's not good at everything because it has like a 16 second ammo switch. By the time the switch is complete, it should already be flanked and/or dead.

The AI is also RNG. Sure it's great if it hits but with it's accuracy and projectile terrain pathing, it sometimes also hits nothing at all. that's 8 seconds plus another 8 seconds to reload and fire again. All this time, it may hit nothing for a 720 MP 260 fuel unit. IS-2 performs better and all heavies have had their MP cost reduced to around 600 for Tiger, IS2, Pershing. This one stands out as an RNG unit like B4 which is why usage is so-so and definitely never used as an AT weapon.

And dude, your playercard barely shows you as playing SOV.
29 Aug 2016, 20:47 PM
#27
avatar of whitesky00

Posts: 468



Who didn't enjoyed ISU vs Ele pre WFA ? It was "SO FUN".


Yeah, tell me about it. ISU always lost whenever Elefant was around. ISU lost to tiger which was the most spammed tank especially since they could get more than one. Elefant for all those tight maps or weird terrain where they could shoot through anything. Had more range before then too.
29 Aug 2016, 21:25 PM
#28
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Yes, that is the exact problem. For the cost of 1 ISU, I do and will always get 2 su-85s. Nobody uses isu-152 for any AT because it RNG bounces even p4. With 8+ seconds reload, it takes as long as a Firefly but fails to reliably penetrate and do damage. And, it's not good at everything because it has like a 16 second ammo switch. By the time the switch is complete, it should already be flanked and/or dead.

The AI is also RNG. Sure it's great if it hits but with it's accuracy and projectile terrain pathing, it sometimes also hits nothing at all. that's 8 seconds plus another 8 seconds to reload and fire again. All this time, it may hit nothing for a 720 MP 260 fuel unit. IS-2 performs better and all heavies have had their MP cost reduced to around 600 for Tiger, IS2, Pershing. This one stands out as an RNG unit like B4 which is why usage is so-so and definitely never used as an AT weapon.

And dude, your playercard barely shows you as playing SOV.


Lulz, tell me, how many 1v1 or 2v2 as SU have you played? Since these are most competitive and give best sight how units perform.

It's not even close to being RNG machine. For AI ISU is the best unit in game. Tell, which unit is better and I will prove you are wrong.

As for the bounces from P4, there is 15% to bounce from vet 2 Pz4 or from OKW Pz4. So I would not whine that 70 range unit has 15% chance to bounce from 234 armor unit.

Funny how you call almost 750 random (+ plenty AT) as Soviets "barely" xD
29 Aug 2016, 22:20 PM
#29
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930

It could really get a price reduction. Right now at the command points and price this tank is useless. If you want to have one ISU you will have to save all the fuel you can.

ISU is shit against tanks but it can wipe infantry like demo charges
30 Aug 2016, 00:00 AM
#30
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



Yeah, tell me about it. ISU always lost whenever Elefant was around. ISU lost to tiger which was the most spammed tank especially since they could get more than one. Elefant for all those tight maps or weird terrain where they could shoot through anything. Had more range before then too.


3v3+ was just Axis domain. But on 2v2, you would either wait and bait another pick or if you went with the ISU you would go for the one with Guards. Either way you would had Guard Motor most of the time as your partners pick. Depending on which patch we are:
-Double mark vehicle (50%dmg + stacking for total 100%)
-Abuse ram (ram = gg for heavies)
-Button + IL2 bombing run + mark vehicle.
30 Aug 2016, 03:32 AM
#31
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 148

I see...

It could increse his AP round pen: from 230 to 240 or maybe.. 250 atleast 100% to penetrated the Medium like Pz4


and a better concrete piercing round maybe... change to time ability (like the J.tiger) for 15sec. (for 1 round) or make it using like pershing 90MU shot or firefly's rockets.

***RIP English***
30 Aug 2016, 04:04 AM
#32
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

Maybe an increase to penetration, though I'm wondering if the HE shells should have a slight arc to help with elevation. Might be weird, but could be an interesting thing.
30 Aug 2016, 04:21 AM
#33
avatar of Smiling Tiger

Posts: 207



then what is the IS-2?
Expensive close combat Anti Infantry Tank?
Because the damage against tanks - a joke. It can damage Pz-4.
Against the Panthers, Tiger and OP KT it is very bad.
Plus a huge GNR bounce


I said it was a heavy assault gun and that its meant to take out softer targets like infantry and structures rather than tanks, you cant have your cake and eat it too. Also how is it a close combat Anti Infantry Tank, it has great range.
30 Aug 2016, 04:27 AM
#34
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2



I said it was a heavy assault gun and that its meant to take out softer targets like infantry and structures rather than tanks, you cant have your cake and eat it too. Also how is it a close combat Anti Infantry Tank, it has great range.


He has, but he is also blind. he has a very small radius of the review

30 Aug 2016, 04:50 AM
#35
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13



He has, but he is also blind. he has a very small radius of the review



You mean the same as every other super-heavy TD at 35? Unless you add spotting scopes.
30 Aug 2016, 06:50 AM
#36
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2



You mean the same as every other super-heavy TD at 35? Unless you add spotting scopes.


TD? Tank Destroyer? IS-2 damage against the heavy tank - a joke
31 Aug 2016, 00:01 AM
#37
avatar of Mirdarion

Posts: 283

What actually needs to be done is to rework the vet1 abilities of Soviet vehicles. Giving them something useful would be as much necessary as it is for Ostheer infantry - but that is preaching to the choir, as Relic doesn't care and doesn't care that we want them to fix it. At this point there is no excuse for them not spending the thirty minutes of coding time necessary to implement appropriate vet1 abilities.

Their reaction time to the USF mortar bugs with that "hotfix" showed us how much time they still want to invest in this game, and apparently that isn't much. So I wouldn't get my hopes up.
31 Aug 2016, 13:33 PM
#38
avatar of Onimusha

Posts: 149

Ok less penetration, ok he and ap shells, but why not the same damage of jagdtiger? It's a 152 mm that a lot of times bounce german armor, i would see 320 damage like all others top tds in game.
31 Aug 2016, 18:00 PM
#39
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 728

I think make it into a dedicated TD like ele and jagd. That would be help full for allies in 2v2 as a lot of maps there is almost no counter for jagd or ele other than a suicide high risk medium flank and your tanks become useless.

Also IS2 should be better at being a generalist it kinda sucks at AT for as much as it cost.
31 Aug 2016, 18:12 PM
#40
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Aug 2016, 18:00 PMRocket
I think make it into a dedicated TD like ele and jagd. That would be help full for allies in 2v2 as a lot of maps there is almost no counter for jagd or ele other than a suicide high risk medium flank and your tanks become useless.

Also IS2 should be better at being a generalist it kinda sucks at AT for as much as it cost.


No. That would kill ISU. It already has a 200 penetration which isn't bad when think that it deals 240 damage and can switch shells to wipe infantry left and right plus it comes with martk target, guards with button and IL-2 bombs. I've plenty Elephants in 2v2 with combination of ISU+Mark Target+IL-2. You don't want to go head-on-head agasint Ele or JT. You need to be tricky.
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