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russian armor

Fixing blob and random wipe

Should we implement this change?
Option Distribution Votes
50%
50%
Total votes: 38
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
13 Aug 2016, 12:53 PM
#1
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

2 off the most discussed topic on this game could be solved with the same solution make all
explosive weapon , nade,and indirect fire deal less than 80 damage (40-50) while doubling the aoe .
for tank we could just make the aoe multiplayer start from .5 and get lower but having more aoe
Random full health wipe would be almost impossible and would reward spacing between unit
If mortar were too much nerfed we could buff their rate of fire
13 Aug 2016, 13:19 PM
#2
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

At first I thought it is stupid to have mortar shell keeping you alive after you got directly hit by it. But then I thought that actually soldiers can't kill each other at point blank range without firing whole magazine in coh2. I think we can go that way then, apart from realism reasons there is nothing against it and it is going to promote good plays.

Just mind that heavy explosives should still deal a lot of damage to tanks, both on penetration and without it. Not only the tank shells.

I also belive that at least goliaths and demos should stay as they are. They are expensive, easy to counter and would be useless without ability to wipe.
13 Aug 2016, 13:25 PM
#3
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

At first I thought it is stupid to have mortar shell keeping you alive after you got directly hit by it. But then I thought that actually soldiers can't kill each other at point blank range without firing whole magazine in coh2. I think we can go that way then, apart from realism reasons there is nothing against it and it is going to promote good plays.

Just mind that heavy explosives should still deal a lot of damage to tanks, both on penetration and without it. Not only the tank shells.

I also belive that at least goliaths and demos should stay as they are. They are expensive, easy to counter and would be useless without ability to wipe.

We have target table for a reason
13 Aug 2016, 17:16 PM
#4
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 148

random wipe = fun
13 Aug 2016, 17:59 PM
#5
avatar of strafniki

Posts: 558 | Subs: 1

random wipe = fun


GabeN
no.
13 Aug 2016, 18:10 PM
#6
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

Random wipes make game more e-sports ready.
13 Aug 2016, 18:47 PM
#7
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

Mortars are fine.
18 Aug 2016, 16:15 PM
#8
avatar of OrionHunter88

Posts: 141

I like the idea and frankly I think that's how AOE should work.
18 Aug 2016, 18:03 PM
#9
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

No.

It's a war and during war people die.

What's next? Direct B-4 hit can't kill a single model?

And what's is RANDOM wipe? Seeing that part of the map is under heavy fire and despite that going there with infantry just to get wiped?

Standing in front of tank?

Watching flying nade without trying to dodge it?

That's not random wipe. That's stupidity or being out-microed.
18 Aug 2016, 18:30 PM
#10
avatar of Mirdarion

Posts: 283

And what's is RANDOM wipe? Seeing that part of the map is under heavy fire and despite that going there with infantry just to get wiped?

Standing in front of tank?

Watching flying nade without trying to dodge it?

That's not random wipe. That's stupidity or being out-microed.



What is X actually?

Option A (unrelated)?

Option B (unrelated)?

Option C (unrelated)?

That's not X!


And that, my friends, is a straw man. Regardless of whether the topic in question has any merit to it or not, that non-argument above is such a beautiful textbook version of a straw man, that I can almost taste the straw it is made of.
18 Aug 2016, 18:32 PM
#11
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2




What is X actually?

Option A (unrelated)?

Option B (unrelated)?

Option C (unrelated)?

That's not X!


And that, my friends, is a straw man. Regardless of whether the topic in question has any merit to it or not, that non-argument above is such a beautiful textbook version of a straw man, that I can almost taste the straw it is made of.


What's your point?

The topic is about random wipes by nades/tanks/mortars while "random" wipes are not "random" most of the time.
18 Aug 2016, 21:15 PM
#12
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

No.

It's a war and during war people die.

What's next? Direct B-4 hit can't kill a single model?

And what's is RANDOM wipe? Seeing that part of the map is under heavy fire and despite that going there with infantry just to get wiped?

Standing in front of tank?

Watching flying nade without trying to dodge it?

That's not random wipe. That's stupidity or being out-microed.
random wipe is when your inf is in green cover and get killed by random tank shoot or when you hear a mortar shell and you move your squad only to get killed the moment you moved or staying in yellow cover for 1 sec and getting wiped (all at full health)
18 Aug 2016, 21:21 PM
#13
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

random wipe is when your inf is in green cover and get killed by random tank shoot or when you hear a mortar shell and you move your squad only to get killed the moment you moved or staying in yellow cover for 1 sec and getting wiped (all at full health)


And how often that happens? Once for 20 games? And it's happening to both sides.

IIRC it's impossible for nade/mortar to kill full health squad in green cover (not sure about yellow).
18 Aug 2016, 21:48 PM
#14
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



And how often that happens? Once for 20 games? And it's happening to both sides.

IIRC it's impossible for nade/mortar to kill full health squad in green cover (not sure about yellow).
yea that s the problem it happen often and happen to both side
while we do this we nerf the blobber a win-win situation after all this game emphasize unit preservation and tactics not random death and blobbing
its not fair to be in green cover and a tank pass around the corner to one shoot you rifleman vet 3 or pgren
18 Aug 2016, 22:00 PM
#15
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

yea that s the problem it happen often and happen to both side
while we do this we nerf the blobber a win-win situation after all this game emphasize unit preservation and tactics not random death and blobbing
its not fair to be in green cover and a tank pass around the corner to one shoot you rifleman vet 3 or pgren


Once per X game is not often.

If you would do this, you would kill the whole game.

It's not win-win situation. It's win situation for worse player.

If I keep my squad in front of a tank and get wipe I should blame myself for not retreating.

If I couldn't dodge nade/wasnt aware of it, it's becasue my opponent out-played me.

Etc etc.

Then don't let enemy's tank to flank you, while you are in cover. Cover flanks with mines, keep recon unit close, know what your enemy is up to.

9/10 wipes are not "random".
18 Aug 2016, 22:06 PM
#16
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



Once per X game is not often.

If you would do this, you would kill the whole game.

It's not win-win situation. It's win situation for worse player.

If I keep my squad in front of a tank and get wipe I should blame myself for not retreating.

If I couldn't dodge nade/wasnt aware of it, it's becasue my opponent out-played me.

Etc etc.

Then don't let enemy's tank to flank you, while you are in cover. Cover flanks with mines, keep recon unit close, know what your enemy is up to.

9/10 wipes are not "random".
no need to flank they do it from the front after all 160/2=80 right now you have chance to survive a tank in no cover then in any cover
About the nade is to make them less of a treat to team weapon and not an instant wipe
And why would it be better for new player ? After all more aoe means even if your tank missed it will still deal damage and emphasize the use of cover as the aoe is bigger but the damage is lower so squad in cover get less damage
18 Aug 2016, 22:10 PM
#17
avatar of synThrax
Donator 11

Posts: 144

It is be totally ok, if a wipe of any kind is in its own way totally justified. Most situations have their own set up where this not only can happen, it has to somehow. I guess nobody would argue that anything wiped from a Sturmtiger shot is unfair.

But then there are theese out of nowhere hits on unspotted stuff , e. g. i lost an ISG from the first! ml20 shell into the fow. I think theese are the situations to discuss, it just feels frustrating.

And there is still the health factor.
18 Aug 2016, 22:11 PM
#18
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

It is be totally ok, if a wipe of any kind is in its own way totally justified. Most situations have their own set up where this not only can happen, it has to somehow. I guess nobody would argue that anything wiped from a Sturmtiger shot is unfair.

But then there are theese out of nowhere hits on unspotted stuff , e. g. i lost an ISG from the first! ml20 shell into the fow. I think theese are the situations to discuss, it just feels frustrating.

And there is still the health factor.
no need for ml 20 just a normal mortar can wipe 6 men squad in yellow cover
18 Aug 2016, 22:12 PM
#19
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

Its just that ppl who don't play with 4 men squads can't understand how frustrating it is and how often it happens. I feel its a v. good idea to use mortars and granades to soften targets and kill with regular suads not the other way around.
19 Aug 2016, 05:36 AM
#20
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
No.

It's a war and during war people die.

What's next? Direct B-4 hit can't kill a single model?

And what's is RANDOM wipe? Seeing that part of the map is under heavy fire and despite that going there with infantry just to get wiped?

Standing in front of tank?

Watching flying nade without trying to dodge it?

That's not random wipe. That's stupidity or being out-microed.


I bet you just play allied factions and their big squad sizes. So how would you like it if my p4 one-shotted your full health riflemen/conscripts like the sherman can. Oh wait, the p4 never does that and fails to kill a single man more than half of its shots at vet 0. Yeah so that's why you don't care about random squad wipes. Or when has an Ostheer mortar one-shotted one of your full health squads. Ostheer needs reprieve from bs RNG that wipes squads. As well, Ostheer doesn't have many units that have decent squad wiping potential in return other than the rarely used (and largely unaffordable tier 4) brummbar and pwerfer.
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