List of unfinished changes for OKW

I agree with Forward Retreat : Why not just one upgrade and get both healing and Forward Retreat .

Compairing leig and usf mortar is kind of weird.

Hm... why do you think so?

I mean, sure there are some differences here and there (like range, firing rate, penetration, etc), but both indirect-fire support weapons.

Lets be honest, everyone used both LeIG and PackHowi against infantry, MGs and countering emplacements, garrisoned units. Just as if it would be a mortar. Even tho it is able to penetrate light armor, it is not its main role. I personally never felt like, oh my opponent built 222's, quick i need a PackHowi here...

On the otherhand, since USF mortar has been implemented, i think no one ever bothered to build a PackHowi. So those two must be related afterall..

Just because US mortar overshadows ISG does not mean ISG is up-pair of them is a hell to fight against-play allies sometime and you'll see that.
I've said plenty of times what I'd do to US mortar already so look it up in one of the mortar threads.

USF mortar rendered packhowi totally redundant too. The smoke is needed to give SOME help against MGs, because OKW have none, except flanking. Also USF mortar is broken. If it will be fixed, fine... but still smoke is needed.

Spios, indifferent, if you try to rely on spio spam for AT, you can't play OKW anyway and singular shreck does not tax factions muni capacity in any way that would excuse lowering the cost. Its light vehicle deterrent and support against med and nothing more, you have oh so bad puppchens(seriously, LEARN to use camo) and volk fausts.

No one was talking about Spio spam. Its something only your imagination added. I said 90MU price was logical for Volks, since it had to be limited somehow, now the price is too high for Spios. They are fragile, 4 men squad, and expensive. I would agree to say, yes, its a nice support unit to a reliable AT gun, but Raketen is not a reliable AT gun. Guess what... its broken too...

I've said plenty of times what I'd do to US mortar already so look it up in one of the mortar threads.

Yeah, nothing, because according to you USF mortar is exactly the same as Ost mortar

USF mortar rendered packhowi totally redundant too. The smoke is needed to give SOME help against MGs, because OKW have none, except flanking. Also USF mortar is broken. If it will be fixed, fine... but still smoke is needed.

I'm quite positive that pack howi makes pack howi redundant enough.
I'd redesign the unit as well(2x 3x more shots in the barrage, no default fire, so it actually IS a portable howitzer instead of mortar bastard child).

No one was talking about Spio spam. Its something only your imagination added. I said 90MU price was logical for Volks, since it had to be limited somehow, now the price is too high for Spios. They are fragile, 4 men squad, and expensive. I would agree to say, yes, its a nice support unit to a reliable AT gun, but Raketen is not a reliable AT gun. Guess what... its broken too...

When you suggest changes, you need to take into account -all- possible implications of said changes.
If you're not going to do that, you might just as well leave balance forums and permanently stick to strategy ones, where you most likely belong anyway.

I'm quite positive that pack howi makes pack howi redundant enough.
I'd redesign the unit as well(2x 3x more shots in the barrage, no default fire, so it actually IS a portable howitzer instead of mortar bastard child).

I'm not against the USF mortar, if it gets fixed. However, i think its pretty obvious, if the mortar stays in game PackHowi will be never built again. So yes, a complete redesign of the unit would be useful... or just remove it.

When you suggest changes, you need to take into account -all- possible implications of said changes.
If you're not going to do that, you might just as well leave balance forums and permanently stick to strategy ones, where you most likely belong anyway.

Well, thats what these forums were made for. I never said my ideas, opinions are flawless. I just suggested my ideas and expected some brainstorming about them. Maybe if you wouldnt just b*tching about other peoples opinion, we could have some grownup conversation here..

On the otherhand, since USF mortar has been implemented, i think no one ever bothered to build a PackHowi. So those two must be related afterall..

Thats true, pack howie is dead unit now. But i still see no reasons to compare usf mortar and leig, it's like compare B4 and land matress..... *because both are indirect fire weapons*.

Goal was add more diversity to usf openings because that was only one vailible opening - rifleman spam. Okw have sturmpios and kubel in t0.

If something should be done than make mg34 availible from start, i see no reasons why that meh hmg is t2 unit.

Oh god people stop encouraging Katitof. He's the very definition of assumption based argumentation.

Anyway, to be constructive:

I think your points #1 and #4 are somewhat related.

Now that Volksgrenadiers get StGs they are perfectly formidable AI units. Obersoldaten require munitions for their LMG, have no AT, and are extremely expensive. They cannot be unsupported without bleeding manpower and feeding vet like nobodies business.

Obersoldaten really have become a sort of surplus unit for winning a won game even harder. (Or a direct route to losing a game for wasting resources.) But that's not to say their AI capabilities are anything to ignore. It's just they retain a critical weakness (no snare or AT) and are very expensive. They're no longer supporting volks that have rifles and schrecks.

If Obersoldaten were reduced in price/xp, and even moved to a different tier, they could easily take on the role of the supposed 'Panzerjager' squads that have been suggested. A pgren-ish cost Obersoldaten with a double schreck upgrade might not be too crazy given the current make-up of OKW.

I would say that the OKW Forward Retreat Point should be reduced to 200mp now that Medics need to be upgraded for an additional cost. I agree that the medics shouldn't have been an automatic freebie, but the current costs do seem excessive.

IMO, the Flak HQ should only be able to be set up in the base HQ or in a sector that already has a set-up truck. They are already denied the ability to set up in VP sectors, which clearly indicates they were not meant to be locking down VPs. But in many cases and maps that is exactly what they do. It really shouldn't be thought of as a 'unit' and instead a tier building with a self defense mechanism. But that's not how it ultimately functions ingame.

But the Flak HT actually has some pretty good utility. But I would have to say I think the problem with it has to do with WFA faction's cramped tier system. It's extremely hard to pace units appropriately with so few tiers.

What is with the okw thing. Nobody is happy unless okw is 20% better than any faction. Only shit I can agree with is the ISG needs smoke and maybe a minor buff to flak truck(unit).

However I just don't get the okw fanboy crap never happy unless they are 20% better than every faction and should have everything they lack even though every other faction lacks in certain areas but makes up for it in others. That and relic actually listens to you.

Cried about okw not having a medium tank even though you had the best infantry AT because they were not designed to have mediums. And they gave it to you.

Next was cried about not having an MG, because you were not designed to you have better infantry with vet and non-doct obers. And they gave it to you. Now it needs to be T0?

They give USF a mortar and you cry about it.
but lets buff the lieg?

Lets bring leig fest back ahh leig fest the most frustrating month of coh I can ever remember. Much like the usf mortar only it had longer range, pinned infantry, and wiped them maybe even worse than USF mortar at first.

Lets complain about british emplacements but then be able to control our hq flak truck and use it like an emplacement but not have to pay for the truck to upgrade the hq flak gun or pay pop cost. Or lets bitch about british stationary mortars sitting behind the bofors but then lets buff mobile liegs and sit them behind the new flak hq truck.

Lets cry about not having 100% resource rate but keep our ability to salvage. And not have to pay for any side tech like any other faction. And imo you still don't pay for enough through all 3 resources. I see no problem with okw being able to spam arty flares anywhere they want on the map and have fully upgraded infantry at the same time. Also seems to me they can beat USF to a reg sherman vs there better p4. Due to side tech like ambulance, weapons, grenades, all pretty much must haves. but lets reduce the cost of med truck that was purposely done to effect that?

Oh I almost forgot lets cry about not being able to clear buildings give versatile infantry one of the most versatile grenades that completely negate your opponet to be able to garrison buildings but you can and other than soviets no other faction has a non-doct easy way to ungarrsion buildings either but thats fine. BUT they just don't do that, they negate cover ensuring you win the fight and do good dmg if hit, they wipe the shit out of all team weapons. You didn't even ask for that and Relic did that so you know they love you.

You know what lets give okw a sniper too, one like ost where it has body armor and can just stand there while your firing at it with bars.

Wait lets give okw a normal AT gun and deny the fact of other things like a doctrinal heavy tank. That would be loads of fun trying to take out a KT with pak support.

Might as well give them a mortar too why we are at it. Oh wait mines too more mines. Let's see what else are we missing

Almost forgot another, emplacements are hard for me to deal with they give you doct arty that okw was never designed to have with there heavy damage defensive position destroy all walking stuka. And the fact you can build the lefh behind flak truck making it hardly possible to take out with out call ins.

Raketenwerfer is fantastic, that is a L2P issue, seriously. My new favorite AT-gun, since they nerfed Take aim on the USF one.

Use stealth, keep them as support units. If you hang back with them they only have to fear explosives. Retreat to preserve their veterancy. Use them in pairs as an ambush on mediums. Once they get vet1 use them in stealth to hunt down repairing vehicles.

Pros:
- Really cheap so can afford to use in pairs
- Stealth so you can scout with them, cap, and ambush
- Vet up fast, and retreat lets you keep the good vet bonuses
- At vet 1 gets op full speed in stealth mode

Cons:
- Gets wiped by explosives easily
- High aimtime makes difficult to shoot at vehicles that drive out of the arc
- Models fire at things with their guns while in stealth.



What they need to change:
- Fix the aimtime so the first shot doesn't take so long to fire.
- Replace the vet1 ability with something less OP. No penalty for stealth? Come on.
- Fix the shooting in stealth bug.

What they need to change:
- Fix the aimtime so the first shot doesn't take so long to fire.
- Replace the vet1 ability with something less OP. No penalty for stealth? Come on.
- Fix the shooting in stealth bug.

And also fix the fact that the shots from the raketenwerfer often hit the ground or cover that its hiding behind which makes the fact that it can take cover useless.

the only think that need a change, is that raketen shot too often the terrain. Everythink else is fine imo.
Maybe smoke shells for the ISG would be cool

What they need to change:
- Fix the aimtime so the first shot doesn't take so long to fire.
- Replace the vet1 ability with something less OP. No penalty for stealth? Come on.
- Fix the shooting in stealth bug.

This, everything else (aside from shot-clipping issues) is an overreaction.

MY $0.02:

Shreks should have stayed on volks, all that needed to happen was a reduction in their vet gain and a slight decrease to their long-range accuracy to better enable kiting. I don't see this happening though, if they stay on sturms allow the purchase of 2 shreks or 1 shrek and sweeper.

Having a cost for repairs at the mech truck is fine, but medics at the BGHQ should be free. Right now OKW t1 is rarely seen as a first tier, while having to pay 50+ (can't remember off the top of my head) fuel for healing is absurd in the late game.

AAHT sucks, everyone knows that. Give it a cost decrease, AP rounds ability, something.

Flak HQ should be able to be controlled by the player, but some of you are underestimating how big of a buff that will be. If it occurs there needs to be fuel cost for the upgrade.

Obers are mostly OK, what they provide is a unit that is effective immediately in the late game, enabling you to replace lost vet volks squads. However their reinforce cost is a bit too high given that they are no more resistant to explosives than any other infantry.

reketens are bad and cannt engage heavy armor which have long range, they will either shoot the ground or gets wiped out, this unit should be reworked or replaced by a proper AT gun and locked at tier 1 or 2

The okw has been repetitively nerfed because of volk shreks. now it no longer applies we need to revise the situation.

SP's. should get double shreks for 120 ammo. At the moment its to inefficient especially considering they have double duty as engineers.

Mirror the rakkettens projectile with other AT guns to prevent clipping otherwise its in a good spot.


Volks: despite what people say volks are to weak for mp/popcap. increase the mp44 upgrade to 100 mirror the damage with the pg's stg44

the flack truck should be able to fire on the move in a 90 decree arc . its projectiles should mirror that of the usf track to prevent clipping.

Remove upgrades from the trucks it really was not needed.

Revert the fuel price for the panther p4 and kt.

The okw has been repetitively nerfed because of volk shreks. now it no longer applies we need to revise the situation.

SP's. should get double shreks for 120 ammo. At the moment its to inefficient especially considering they have double duty as engineers.

Mirror the rakkettens projectile with other AT guns to prevent clipping otherwise its in a good spot.


Volks: despite what people say volks are to weak for mp/popcap. increase the mp44 upgrade to 100 mirror the damage with the pg's stg44

the flack truck should be able to fire on the move in a 90 decree arc . its projectiles should mirror that of the usf track to prevent clipping.

Remove upgrades from the trucks it really was not needed.

Revert the fuel price for the panther p4 and kt.

a bit too much but the direction is right

reketens are bad and cannt engage heavy armor which have long range, they will either shoot the ground or gets wiped out, this unit should be reworked or replaced by a proper AT gun and locked at tier 1 or 2

No one said it can handle heavy armour. OKW have Panther and Jagdpanzer fulfilling that role already. The raketen primary role is ambushing light and medium armours, not a frontline AT gun like Pak40 or 6-pounder. Use them in pair, put them seperately in ambush position along with "decoy" volks for fausting and medium armours are dead!

Its aim time could get some rework, but beside that, it's pretty good. People said it's bad because they aren't used to it yet, but when you do, that thing (in pair) can become the Allies tanks' nightmare.

No one said it can handle heavy armour. OKW have Panther and Jagdpanzer fulfilling that role already. The raketen primary role is ambushing light and medium armours, not a frontline AT gun like Pak40 or 6-pounder. Use them in pair, put them seperately in ambush position along with "decoy" volks for fausting and medium armours are dead!

Its aim time could get some rework, but beside that, it's pretty good. People said it's bad because they aren't used to it yet, but when you do, that thing (in pair) can become the Allies tanks' nightmare.

Same here, my only gripe is that this thing just loves to shoot the ground/cover at that 1st shot. If it hits though, it hurts Allied tank good.

I agree with Forward Retreat : Why not just one upgrade and get both healing and Forward Retreat .

Because according to some people it would be "free", despite statistically actually being the most expensive method to get healing. The only exception is Brit's infantry medics, but then again a player starts with one.