Let's Talk: Sd.Kfz. 222

The 222 is a strange beast, it feels weird that the best way to counter a dangerous unit is to spam a cheaper version of that unit. Others have already pointed out the challenge, in that while the unit does deliver excellent performance for its price, it's justified because of the problems OH otherwise has with light vehicles. I would like to see this unit work more as a anti-infantry/sniper hunter/recon unit and less as a makeshift light-vehicle counter, but that would require changes to be made elsewhere.

That basically comes down to either nerfing allied lights, delaying their timing, or buffing other OH units. I think we need to be careful with the first two options. Light vehicles are already in a tenuous position, they wouldn't need to be much less attractive before we go back to the same boring stalling/mid-game skipping meta. AEC I think is fine (not huge threat unless you rush a HT), T70 is also fine (low HP, arrives later), stuart could do with a look-in (as you mentioned, shell-shock and repair critical are a bit too good).

If we go the other way and look into buffing some less-used options, we could look at: 1. Give PGs the option to purchase one panzershrek at a time. 2: Slight decrease in load time for AP rounds on the MG42. 3: slight cost decrease ~10-20mp on the Pak, I think it's reasonable given how clumsy and hard to keep it is to keep alive with all the indirect and infantry blobs these days.

Whatever we do it doesn't need to be much, light vehicles are still a gamble and if they hit a teller soon after purchase that can often decide the game right there.

1- Reminder that when the unit received it's HP buff it got a NINJA price decrease. 222 used to cost 20f and suddenly they drop it to 15f.

July 21th update: (2015)

SdKfz 221 Scout Car
The SdKfz 221 Scout Car is now the SdKfz 222 Scout Car. It will come with the KwK 30 2cm Autocannon by default.
Cost increased from 210/15 to 230/20

Febraury 25th update:
222 Scout Car
We are increasing the HP of the 222 to allow it to better combat other light vehicles and infantry.

HP increased from 240 to 320

It's easy to see that they used internally an old build during the patch and applied the HP buff on top of it. Making the unit cost 230/20 is a BUGFIX or ninja fix.

2- IMO the cost increase should be around 5-10f with the MG fixed/buff. This means putting the unit at 230mp/25-30f The HP buff alone was worth 5f.
I wouldn't mind leaving the 210mp cost although.

Light vehicle meta will be upset yet again; I think all 222s need is a 5/10 fuel increase.

And a model size reduction. That thing seems bigger than it was supposed to be IRL.

And a model size reduction. That thing seems bigger than it was supposed to be IRL.

That's a pretty good idea actually. Not only does the large model size seem weird from a fluff perspective, it probably contributes to people's expectation the unit should basically be a light tank since it looks like one.

I was always advocating for 222 buffs, but relic remade it into pretty much a light tank vehicle with scout car price with constant buffs and price reductions.

Cost effectiveness of 222 is over the roof while risk associated to cost is extremely low.

Hell, if you know how to, it can even effectively drop retreating squads if they are at around 10-20% health(shocks included) with a little bit of micro and retreat path blocking.

If the health is to stay at light tank level, price should go up.
If its to remain cheap, while rendering all other lights of its tier useless, its health needs to drop so you don't hardcounter 2-4x more expensive units effortlessly.

Had any allied light be this cost effective, the shitstorm would be remembered by relics grand kids.

I was always advocating for 222 buffs, but relic remade it into pretty much a light tank vehicle with scout car price with constant buffs and price reductions.

Cost effectiveness of 222 is over the roof while risk associated to cost is extremely low.

Hell, if you know how to, it can even effectively drop retreating squads if they are at around 10-20% health(shocks included) with a little bit of micro and retreat path blocking.

If the health is to stay at light tank level, price should go up.
If its to remain cheap, while rendering all other lights of its tier useless, its health needs to drop so you don't hardcounter 2-4x more expensive units effortlessly.

Had any allied light be this cost effective, the shitstorm would be remembered by relics grand kids.

the 222 is a mini puma. It's a cheap anti vehicle specalist. Sov and USF infantry have no issue dealing with 222 and they will usually have their own light vehicle as well. Only the british really have any problem against the 222.

it fit the wehr's own to counter the stuart and t70 without hurting the aggressive allies too much.

For the price from two 222 u get an bofors...which deal with whole armys....so pls nerv the beforos too.

For the price from two 222 u get an bofors...which deal with whole armys....so pls nerv the beforos too.

Last time I've checked, going for 222 didn't blocked you from building 251 or PGs and bofors wasn't rolling around the map, hunting panzer 4s.

@Firesparks
I'd say its mini AEC, when you have 2, AI DPS is very reliable and considerable, you can park them in front of garrisoned maxim and they will clear it in moments. The only inf unit 222s really need to be aware of are guards.

Well, I'm all for altering the 222.

Problem is Mirage, relic will take half of your idea, and then probably just ignore the other half.

They'll nerf the economics of the vehicle, while not fixing it's problems, or do it piece meal and basically screw OH until they get off their hands.

I think Budwise made a post a few years ago about there not being side tech in a lot of the factions and how it made him not like coh2.

I could see a 20 fuel 222 at 220 mp w/ a 50 mp/10 fuel 40 second side tech upgrade.


Honestly, I think Luvnest should make a mod to have ostheer be the 1941 blitzkrieg that he wants it to be. P3s should roam everywhere and it would be great.

I could overhaul every faction and make them better and coh2 would be better. don't even get me started about WFA...

I think Budwise made a post a few years ago about there not being side tech in a lot of the factions and how it made him not like coh2.

I could see a 20 fuel 222 at 220 mp w/ a 50 mp/10 fuel 40 second side tech upgrade.

That actually is very reasonable idea.
Prevents rushes, extends window of opportunity for lights that don't stand a chance even with support on field and still allow for spammable 222(I personally believe 222 should be at peak of cost effectiveness in pair).

Stay on topic, please.

British: Add additional time for construction of the Platoon Command and researching the AEC.

please dont do that. it would hurt strategies that dont build IS a lot.

other than that i would first talk about wehrmacht buffs and then see how the game evolves. talking about the nerfs before impementing the buffs is pretty senseless, as no once can perfectly predict the meta after ost buffs.

It is a shame that 2 x 222 is almost mandatory. That 30 fuel counters 60+

I agree that no tech call ins are messing up timings across the board. Getting a light vehicle followed up by a call-in is just so damn effective at the moment. Maybe once that is fixed there can be a proper look at teching to get mediums which is a rare sight these days.

The m20 and m3a1 have almost no window of opportunity vs the 222. The m20 costs way more manpower, needs a munitions upgrade for skirts and then takes way more experience to vet up.

But it just counters the AEC, t70 and stuart countered by luchs is just a bad decision making then. Also AEC with smoke can handle 2 scoutcars also.

Maybe if i was back to 221 and had numerous utility roles with pitiful MG would make the 2cm upgrade not a nobrainer like it was? For example unupgraded means it's great for scouting, but this is removed if you upgrade to 2cm gun and push it into combat role.

That might not work unless it is technically a downgrade though; players need mobile firepower more than a car that's just there to look at stuff.

Cost increase in fuel is well deserved.

Anti Infantry effectiveness slight increase (in form of more reliable MG on it) is also well deserved. It has a risk/reward in the fact it needs to get pretty close to a unit to do decent DPS (where it can also be easily countered).

Build time can be increased by 10-15s if needed to reduce spamming potential (and to ensure there is a counter available to allies once 2 or more hit the field, unless really early). OH teching is already a bit slow, T2 comes very late considering all other factions don't have to go to base to build their T2 building.

Good idea miragefla.