Question in the title.
Basically, I notice squads are still lucky to survive even on retreat against a Croc, but a Hetzer is lucky if it can kill something in green cover. I'm not sure in what way this is considered normalized.
What does 'flame damage normalized' actually mean?
19 Jul 2016, 08:19 AM
#1
Posts: 769 | Subs: 1
Some of my COH2 Guides:
| The COH2 System Performance Guide | The COH2 FAQ |
19 Jul 2016, 08:25 AM
#2
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
MrSotko said on a shoutbox that Hetzer is like WASP while Croc has 2nd flamer? Or something like that... In other words, it acts like flame HT.
We need to call for MrSotko to englight us again!
Besides, I think Croc's flamethrower is overperforming a bit. It doesnt give you any chances to retreat teamweapon or move back at guns.
We need to call for MrSotko to englight us again!
Besides, I think Croc's flamethrower is overperforming a bit. It doesnt give you any chances to retreat teamweapon or move back at guns.
19 Jul 2016, 08:29 AM
#3
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
The only difference is the cooldown between bursts and the lenght of the bursts i think, which makes huge difference in terms of dmg output
19 Jul 2016, 08:36 AM
#5
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
That means the damage for all flamers is the same.
Its 16 for all of them.
Difference come in the "rate of fire" and cooldowns.
Its 16 for all of them.
Difference come in the "rate of fire" and cooldowns.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
19 Jul 2016, 08:36 AM
#6
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
I also noticed the KV-8 overperforming against Infantry, let's nerf all Allied flamethrower tanks then!
Before it's too late and Relic add a Sherman Croc! Quick!
If you noticed KV8 is OP then make a thread about it so I can disagree with you, since KV8 is perfectly all right.
That means the damage for all flamers is the same.
Its 16 for all of them.
Difference come in the "rate of fire" and cooldowns.
It may be but MrSotko was saying somethin like Croc has 2nd flamer and acts like a HT, therefore 32damage.
19 Jul 2016, 08:38 AM
#7
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
If you noticed KV8 is OP then make a thread about it so I can disagree with you, since KV8 is perfectly all right.
This guy... The Churchill Croc is also perfectly fine then as well, there.
19 Jul 2016, 08:41 AM
#8
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
This guy... The Churchill Croc is also perfectly fine then as well, there.
Besides, I think Croc's flamethrower is overperforming a bit. It doesnt give you any chances to retreat teamweapon or move back at guns.
So this is how it feels when people defend me with my own quotes against people who I will not call stupid, because I'm being watched
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
19 Jul 2016, 08:42 AM
#9
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
It's fine that you don't have a chance to reatreat any crew weapon?
OKAY....
OKAY....
19 Jul 2016, 09:05 AM
#10
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
"Flame damage normalized" means exactly the following:
The hidden Croc weapon that Cruzz is referring to seems to be badly parametrized, as it has several cooldown-related values set to 0.
Luckily, since every single British unit is affected by an obscure bug (exceptions: 17-pounder and Sexton), so is the Crocodile:
- Only the weaker flamethrower responds to attack commands. The stronger flamethrower will pick on whichever target and stick to it.
The only change ever since that post was that the Flammenwerfer was recently buffed (but it shouldn't really affect the DPS).
Their damage per burst is the same (except on the churchill...), but there are big differences in how long their bursts are and how big the delay between them is. To add to the confusion, the churchill croc also features two flamers with the exact same orientation so you only really see one effect.
Overall DPS for the vehicle flamers is more or less:
Churchill Croc > Flammenwerfer (both guns) > KV8 (***) > Flammenwerfer (one gun) = WASP = Hetzer
Crocodile only has a movement penalty on the weaker flamer that you are directly giving attack orders to, and flammenwerfer has no movement penalties either. The other vehicle flamers have 50% accuracy on the move, reducing damage against the model being attacked though otherwise probably not affecting performance.
***KV8 has a higher radius on DOT damage and more DOTS placed, so on a stationary target it might be as good as a croc (Ignoring the main gun).
The hidden Croc weapon that Cruzz is referring to seems to be badly parametrized, as it has several cooldown-related values set to 0.
Luckily, since every single British unit is affected by an obscure bug (exceptions: 17-pounder and Sexton), so is the Crocodile:
- Only the weaker flamethrower responds to attack commands. The stronger flamethrower will pick on whichever target and stick to it.
The only change ever since that post was that the Flammenwerfer was recently buffed (but it shouldn't really affect the DPS).
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
19 Jul 2016, 09:14 AM
#11
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
It's fine that you don't have a chance to reatreat any crew weapon?
OKAY....
Both of them are overperforming according to you then since they're better armored than the Hetzer, Flammwerfer and Wasp, the only other Allied Flame tank that could join them would be the Sherman Croc.
It's not just the Churchill croc but I believe it's only because it's an Armored tank WITH a flamethrower, something which the Germans have no equivalent of, well, maybe they would if Relic would add a Panzer III and gave it a sort of Flamm upgrade or something.
Edit: Since they all have the same damage try putting up a WASP against a weapon crew (frontally if you're feeling cheeky) and see if they won't have time to retreat, plus another support unit would force the WASP to retreat if the person doesn't want to lose it because of it's paper armor.
Edit 2: No the Armor is NOT the only reason it's ONE of the reasons.
19 Jul 2016, 09:22 AM
#12
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Both of them are overperforming according to you then since they're better armored than the Hetzer, Flammwerfer and Wasp, the only other Allied Flame tank that could join them would be the Sherman Croc.
It's not just the Churchill croc but I believe it's only because it's an Armored tank WITH a flamethrower, something which the Germans have no equivalent of, well, maybe they would if Relic would add a Panzer III and gave it a sort of Flamm upgrade or something.
Edit: Since they all have the same damage try putting up a WASP against a weapon crew (frontally if you're feeling cheeky) and see if they won't have time to retreat, plus another support unit would force the WASP to retreat if the person doesn't want to lose it because of it's paper armor.
Edit 2: No the Armor is NOT the only reason it's ONE of the reasons.
WTF dude? Where did you figure out that according to me KV8 is OP?
MrSotko clearlt showed that Cros flamers is stronger than KV8 so what's the problem with you?
Cros has 2 flamers - KV9 has one.
So I did a test.
KV8 needs 19-20secs to wipe maxim.
Croc needs 14secs.
As for the poor 4men crew, it need 8secs to kill, while KV8 14secs.
Hetzer needs 23secs to wipe maxim.
But you know, all have the same damage
19 Jul 2016, 11:08 AM
#13
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
WTF dude? Where did you figure out that according to me KV8 is OP?
MrSotko clearlt showed that Cros flamers is stronger than KV8 so what's the problem with you?
Cros has 2 flamers - KV9 has one.
So I did a test.
KV8 needs 19-20secs to wipe maxim.
Croc needs 14secs.
As for the poor 4men crew, it need 8secs to kill, while KV8 14secs.
Hetzer needs 23secs to wipe maxim.
But you know, all have the same damage
Hey, I'm not arguing it's what Relic said, all flamethrower weapons do 16 damage, not my prob that they designed the Croc badly.
19 Jul 2016, 14:11 PM
#14
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Hey, I'm not arguing it's what Relic said, all flamethrower weapons do 16 damage, not my prob that they designed the Croc badly.
Then stop satuing bullshit that accoring to me KV8 is OP, becasue same damage means nothing when you look at other stats.
19 Jul 2016, 14:42 PM
#15
Posts: 1439
Question in the title.
Basically, I notice squads are still lucky to survive even on retreat against a Croc, but a Hetzer is lucky if it can kill something in green cover. I'm not sure in what way this is considered normalized.
Considering how much both of them cost and when they arrive on the battlefield I don't see anything wrong with that.
19 Jul 2016, 16:14 PM
#16
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
Then stop satuing bullshit that accoring to me KV8 is OP, becasue same damage means nothing when you look at other stats.
I've searched for the word OP in this entire topic WITHOUT me editing any of my comments and I have no comment that accuses you of saying that the KV8 is OP.
You Aussies sure are whack tho, on the defensive even when I'm not attacking you lol.
19 Jul 2016, 17:41 PM
#17
1 
Posts: 2885
I've searched for the word OP in this entire topic WITHOUT me editing any of my comments and I have no comment that accuses you of saying that the KV8 is OP.
You Aussies sure are whack tho, on the defensive even when I'm not attacking you lol.
The fact that somebody has the word "australian" in his nick, doesn't mean he is australian yet, just saying
19 Jul 2016, 18:11 PM
#19
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I've searched for the word OP in this entire topic WITHOUT me editing any of my comments and I have no comment that accuses you of saying that the KV8 is OP.
OP= overpowered or overperforming
"I also noticed the KV-8 overperforming against Infantry, let's nerf all Allied flamethrower tanks then!"
From there the discussion goes like:
HE thinks that the Croc might be OP but you jump saying that if he thinks so, then both KV8 and Croc should be OP as they have equal damage and are armored (wrong).
Just admit that you were wrong on thinking that equal damage means = DPS.
To make an example: Think about having CE mosins deal 8 dmg, Conscripts 12dmg and Guards 16dmg. Then Relic comes and makes all mosins deal 16dmg but they just nerf cooldowns, reload and accuracy on CE and Conscripts to keep the same damage output. Something simil happened with flame weapons.
Anyways, back into OP:
Just refer to what @Smith posted. If you want an opinion, the Hetzer is crap and the rest of the vehicles are fine.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
19 Jul 2016, 18:16 PM
#20
1 Posts: 2885
Hetzer should have the stats of KV-8 on its flamer. Problem solved.
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