Hello,
here is a video demonstration from the current patch of CoH2 (18th July) where I manage to outmaneuver a German MG42 squad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq0NIfofQeE
Please note the mg is not supported in any way. I also struggle with my micro due to the input delay present in the game.
As the mg squad now has 4 members, I feel the damage towards moving / deploying mg42 squads could be increased for more rewarding and strategic gameplay.
- jp
Flanking german mg42 crews - Video
18 Jul 2013, 20:50 PM
#1
Posts: 168
18 Jul 2013, 21:09 PM
#2
Posts: 49
Lol, been there done that, what a joke. If you get a flank on an MG (both sides) and they don't retreat it then it should die. 1 min 30 to force a retreat. In the context of the game and how fast the teching pace is that's ALONG time and destroys game immersion big time. FFS increase small arms fire already and force the MG guys to use cover, unbelievable.
18 Jul 2013, 21:10 PM
#3
Posts: 6
Why don't you use molotovs?
You should upgrade conscripts units or blob in order to be effective.
A conscript squad with only a rifle who is running like hell won't kill anybody, so yes it is probably due to your micro.
You should upgrade conscripts units or blob in order to be effective.
A conscript squad with only a rifle who is running like hell won't kill anybody, so yes it is probably due to your micro.
18 Jul 2013, 21:22 PM
#4
Posts: 49
Due to micro, get your hand off it mate that whole situation was microed he was constantly moving the conscripts forcing it to pack up and re-set up. Molotoves should not be necessary in this instance, the MG should just die, it was caught off guard ffs mate L2P b4 telling us someones micro sucks.
18 Jul 2013, 21:35 PM
#5
Posts: 6
Due to micro, get your hand off it mate that whole situation was microed he was constantly moving the conscripts forcing it to pack up and re-set up. Molotoves should not be necessary in this instance, the MG should just die, it was caught off guard ffs mate L2P b4 telling us someones micro sucks.
He was running almost the whole time, that is NOT good micro. He should have walked around in small circles, with oorah he gave the MG squad too much time and space.
Besides, I haven't seen any infantry able to shoot behind them. circles are better than walking back and forth.
Oh yeah and please don't be immature by raging when you don't agree with someone. Maybe your mom will give you candy that way but I don't think anybody else will
18 Jul 2013, 21:51 PM
#6
Posts: 604
The mistake he made is running too much.
The conscripts were never really shooting because two thirds of the time they were facing away from the MG. He ran around too much, allowing the mg to rotate with them in packed up state.
Instead, you have to make the mg set down, then run through it (not so far as he did), then focus fire it, then when it tries to set down run through it again.
However, he mentioned huge input lag so this may have been a factor as well when the connection between the two players was very slow. If the connection is good, the input lag isn't as bad normally.
I fail to see how this would have been different for a Soviet MG though. After all they pack up instantly and still set down very quickly even with the patch.
I know people don't like using molotovs because they can be dodged (by grens) but I think people haven't used them to their full potential yet. In cases such as this, a single molotov will solve the situation very well.
The conscripts were never really shooting because two thirds of the time they were facing away from the MG. He ran around too much, allowing the mg to rotate with them in packed up state.
Instead, you have to make the mg set down, then run through it (not so far as he did), then focus fire it, then when it tries to set down run through it again.
However, he mentioned huge input lag so this may have been a factor as well when the connection between the two players was very slow. If the connection is good, the input lag isn't as bad normally.
I fail to see how this would have been different for a Soviet MG though. After all they pack up instantly and still set down very quickly even with the patch.
I know people don't like using molotovs because they can be dodged (by grens) but I think people haven't used them to their full potential yet. In cases such as this, a single molotov will solve the situation very well.
18 Jul 2013, 21:59 PM
#7
Posts: 19
Its the same situation for the German player if he catches a Maxim off guard.
Yes the Maxim has a smaller arc of fire, but it sets up and packs up faster, has more durability, and Grenadier squads lack molotovs or oo-rah.
Yes the Maxim has a smaller arc of fire, but it sets up and packs up faster, has more durability, and Grenadier squads lack molotovs or oo-rah.
18 Jul 2013, 22:01 PM
#8
Posts: 9
The mistake he made is running too much.
The conscripts were never really shooting because two thirds of the time they were facing away from the MG. He ran around too much, allowing the mg to rotate with them in packed up state.
Instead, you have to make the mg set down, then run through it (not so far as he did), then focus fire it, then when it tries to set down run through it again.
However, he mentioned huge input lag so this may have been a factor as well when the connection between the two players was very slow. If the connection is good, the input lag isn't as bad normally.
I fail to see how this would have been different for a Soviet MG though. After all they pack up instantly and still set down very quickly even with the patch.
I know people don't like using molotovs because they can be dodged (by grens) but I think people haven't used them to their full potential yet. In cases such as this, a single molotov will solve the situation very well.
agreed
I'd rather flank an MG42 than a maxium, you have molotovs and MG42 is slow to pack up & set up.
18 Jul 2013, 22:06 PM
#9
Posts: 183
quote"This is another total fail on Relic. What are they hiring Boston Terriers to program things now? I'm never buying a Relic game again and I'm burning my copy of CoH 2."
18 Jul 2013, 22:16 PM
#10
Posts: 101
i also would like to point out that mgs and cons cost the same and have same pop cap. so 1v1, seems pretty normal.
*shrug*
*shrug*
18 Jul 2013, 22:27 PM
#11
Posts: 168
I couldn't circle the mg squad because of it's positioning next to a cover object and snow.
As for running too much, that's because of the "input lag" and the squad member AI doing funny things at times.
The whole conscript squad will get pinned if even one of them is caught in the firing arc. This tends to happen a lot actually if you don't keep enough distance.
I'm not discussing the soviet maxim durability here, just a heads up.
The mg42 is a unit with a quite specialized role. What happened in the video was I caught it while it was vulnerable - yet still forcing it to reatreat required a whole 1 minute 30 seconds of intensive microing.
My point is this 1 minute 30 seconds is too much.
If my opponent would have supported his mg with another unit, I agree a molotov would have been a good choice. As for a 1 on 1 encounter they shouldn't be necessary.
Pfuscher, what are you implying? =) Surely the balance forum is the correct place to discuss opinions such as this one.
As for running too much, that's because of the "input lag" and the squad member AI doing funny things at times.
The whole conscript squad will get pinned if even one of them is caught in the firing arc. This tends to happen a lot actually if you don't keep enough distance.
I'm not discussing the soviet maxim durability here, just a heads up.
The mg42 is a unit with a quite specialized role. What happened in the video was I caught it while it was vulnerable - yet still forcing it to reatreat required a whole 1 minute 30 seconds of intensive microing.
My point is this 1 minute 30 seconds is too much.
If my opponent would have supported his mg with another unit, I agree a molotov would have been a good choice. As for a 1 on 1 encounter they shouldn't be necessary.
Pfuscher, what are you implying? =) Surely the balance forum is the correct place to discuss opinions such as this one.
18 Jul 2013, 23:31 PM
#12
Posts: 247
I feel this is a great problem with support weapons this time around, you arent punished for leaving them outflanked and unprotected. The way it is now, the game encourages tacticly bad play, and honestly, it looks ridiciolus. I fail to see what was wrong with this aspect of COH1. It really worked well, why change it?
18 Jul 2013, 23:34 PM
#13
Posts: 53
Ya, the conscript squad was poorly microed by moving them too much and too far past the mg almost every time. Subsequently I don't think this proves anything. However, my only problem with how this turned out is... why the hell did the conscript squad start suffering from the cold while being forced to do all that running back and forth ? 
clearly unrealistic
clearly unrealistic
19 Jul 2013, 00:48 AM
#14
Posts: 32
Those problem would be fix if basic gun would do more dmg.
19 Jul 2013, 03:19 AM
#15
Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2
Part of the issue is that unlike in CoH, units in CoH 2 don't shoot behind them while moving, so your Conscripts spent a lot of time not firing.
Signature by Ginnungagap
19 Jul 2013, 03:41 AM
#16
Posts: 522
Part of the issue is that unlike in CoH, units in CoH 2 don't shoot behind them while moving, so your Conscripts spent a lot of time not firing.
^^ This. I wish they hadn't change this mechanic it was perfectly fine in coh1 :/
19 Jul 2013, 05:48 AM
#17
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedThis is even harder for Ost vs Maxims.
A 50% speed infantry "reverse" command for soft retreating while firing would be awesome.
A 50% speed infantry "reverse" command for soft retreating while firing would be awesome.
19 Jul 2013, 06:31 AM
#18
Posts: 94
Oh man this is really a pet peeve of mine too.
It's all fine and good to have a system of counters in place where unit X beats unit Y and so on.
BUT
The excellence of the COH design has always been that positioning mattered a lot, you may be weak in a straight up fight, but use your unit correctly and you can win.
The prime example in this thread is flanking support weapons. MGs should be lethal if taken on straight on, but if flanked (in an unsupported position) they should have to leg it or die.
As is you pretty much need molotovs to threaten an MG, there's not elegant flanking play really as in COH1. I don't want to come off as a complainer but this particular aspect is a step back.
Then again the lethality in COH1 came from the fact that the US units had semi-auto rifles that got huge boosts at close range, so a flanked MG would die rapidly. This is not really the case in COH2, the soviet bolt actions don't seem to have nearly the same power close in.
It's all fine and good to have a system of counters in place where unit X beats unit Y and so on.
BUT
The excellence of the COH design has always been that positioning mattered a lot, you may be weak in a straight up fight, but use your unit correctly and you can win.
The prime example in this thread is flanking support weapons. MGs should be lethal if taken on straight on, but if flanked (in an unsupported position) they should have to leg it or die.
As is you pretty much need molotovs to threaten an MG, there's not elegant flanking play really as in COH1. I don't want to come off as a complainer but this particular aspect is a step back.
Then again the lethality in COH1 came from the fact that the US units had semi-auto rifles that got huge boosts at close range, so a flanked MG would die rapidly. This is not really the case in COH2, the soviet bolt actions don't seem to have nearly the same power close in.
19 Jul 2013, 06:46 AM
#19
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedIf you think flanking MG is hard, try flanking a Maxim!
19 Jul 2013, 07:05 AM
#20
Posts: 22
Molotov is useless -
- u can dodge it
- even if u cant it does like 0 dmg - other words not worth it
- ye it works fine vs mg - mg which is not cover....even if its not cover its still not worth it becouse mg will do tons of dmg anyway
- after all most of time they mg at house and again its even more useleess and im talking about those big houses
There is no fck point to upg molovot early - later ok, it can disturb, nothing more.
- u can dodge it
- even if u cant it does like 0 dmg - other words not worth it
- ye it works fine vs mg - mg which is not cover....even if its not cover its still not worth it becouse mg will do tons of dmg anyway
- after all most of time they mg at house and again its even more useleess and im talking about those big houses
There is no fck point to upg molovot early - later ok, it can disturb, nothing more.
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