t34/85 is a bit too cheap

85s are 40 mp and 5 fuel more

yet twice better than pansy IV

Kappa

what a joke.. comparing medium tank (giving hell to infantry ) with tank destroyer only!!!! ...

what a joke.. comparing medium tank (giving hell to infantry ) with tank destroyer only!!!! ...

RealName refers to T-34-85s, not SU-85s.

RealName refers to T-34-85s, not SU-85s.

So how come a T34/85 is twice better than P4 !! .. yeah its slightly better because its a commander tank, and come later at T4, and has to face pgrens shrecks, while P4 faces only ptrs.
Not to say PAK40 is better than ZiS and stug3 is better than SU76.

So how come a T34/85 is twice better than P4 !! .. yeah its slightly better because its a commander tank, and come later at T4, and has to face pgrens shrecks, while P4 faces only ptrs.
Not to say PAK40 is better than ZiS and stug3 is better than SU76.

160 more health, 20 more armour, more main gun penetration and now better MGs. Twice is definitely an overstatement, but it's pretty clearly better.

20 more armour

160 is more then 180/234 how?

160 is more then 180/234 how?

Eyes, why u do this to me

I'll blame having 5 hours of sleep, sure let's go with that.

So how come a T34/85 is twice better than P4 !! .. yeah its slightly better because its a commander tank, and come later at T4, and has to face pgrens shrecks, while P4 faces only ptrs.
Not to say PAK40 is better than ZiS and stug3 is better than SU76.

I agree, Soviet is underpowered, and we can clearly see that axis is op this patch. I think we should switch the shitty T-34-85 with the very good Ost Panzer IV, that way Soviets will have more chances to win again.

O o o I got the solution! what if you make the p4 a crappy ultra cheap tank, and then you put it in tier 4 (you know for additional faction flavour), but then nobody uses it, so you buff their mg but still nobody uses it ... no? ... nobody? at least you can give it flares or capture territory as vet abilities ...

Ok end of joke. The p4 has the magic powers of blitzkrieg, and has access to smoke (they are fine but you don't have to deal with useless stuff like cap territory or ram) and better vet bonus, meanwhile it faces the fearsome ptrs troops instead of panzerfaust blobs.

In my opinion t34-85 is fine, maybe it should be a non doctrinal unit with a really small fuel increase, probably the other medium tanks are the problem considering the situation of the sherman, the cromwell, the t34 and the p4.

Kek at this post, finally someone with sense.

also, you retards need to understand that P4 is a mini-tiger, not a mini-panther. They can deal with tanks but their main purpose is to support infantry. I lost count of how many times I just got rushed by a P4 that wiped multiple units with a single shot, It is just ridiculous.

Hell, even panthers are melting infantry nowadays, especially the squishy soviet infantry.

and lets not forget about how when P4 get armored skirts they just become impervious to Shermans and T34s

you retards need to understand that P4 is a mini-tiger, not a mini-panther. They can deal with tanks but their main purpose is to support infantry. I lost count of how many times I just got rushed by a P4 that wiped multiple units with a single shot, It is just ridiculous.

Hell, even panthers are melting infantry nowadays, especially the squishy soviet infantry.

and lets not forget about how when P4 get armored skirts they just become impervious to Shermans and T34s

+1

Again how is the t34/85 too cheap for what it is and what it does?
This thread has lasted longer than it should, we can all agree that the way tanks and tech building with soviets is mostly balanced, there is no need for changes anymore.
This faction problem is how things are handled in infantry and how conscripts are designed.

If you think Panzer 4 is too expensive, this is another subject, it may be right.
t34/85 for 380/130fuel is not TOO CHEAP, be serious here how is it cheap?

We should be talking about kv1 instead...

We should be talking about kv1 instead...

KV1 is great, It's a shame that only ONE commander has it...

Hell, even panthers are melting infantry nowadays, especially the squishy soviet infantry.

Please distinguish between the OKW and Wehrmacht Panther here. The OKW Panther is okay versus infantry the Wehrmacht one is absolute garbage in this regard.

Again how is the t34/85 too cheap for what it is and what it does?
This thread has lasted longer than it should, we can all agree that the way tanks and tech building with soviets is mostly balanced, there is no need for changes anymore.
This faction problem is how things are handled in infantry and how conscripts are designed.

If you think Panzer 4 is too expensive, this is another subject, it may be right.
t34/85 for 380/130fuel is not TOO CHEAP, be serious here how is it cheap?

It's too cheap because by every comparable standard it out performs axis armour for the cost.

If your argument is "because it's a doctrine unit," why are there a number of other doctrine units that are practically useless for their cost?

OH has crazy cost effective scout cars that mess up 70 fuel light vehicles in pairs. Just as that needs a fix so does the t34/85. Probably in the realm of 20 fuel.

It's too cheap because by every comparable standard it out performs axis armour for the cost.

If your argument is "because it's a doctrine unit," why are there a number of other doctrine units that are practically useless for their cost?

OH has crazy cost effective scout cars that mess up 70 fuel light vehicles in pairs. Just as that needs a fix so does the t34/85. Probably in the realm of 20 fuel.

The thing is it doesn't outperform by every comparable standard. It wins 1v1 against other meds and is superior in the AT role. It also has worse abilities, worse vet, worse stats in some other areas.

Being doctrinal is in effect a cost, because by choosing a doctrine with t34/85 you have the opportunity cost of the other doctrinal options you forego. This is especially true for sovs which are still quite reliant on doctrinal units. On the other hand you forego nothing by building core units. Of course that doesn't excuse doctrinal units being OP but you can't just dismiss it out of hand. True that many doctrinal units are useless but that doesn't mean the t34/85 must be, it just means those useless units need a buff or a rework.

Sovs are in a pretty good place right now. As always there are some things that need attention but the t34/85 doesn't need to be high on the priority list. If it truly does need a nerf then 5 fu would be acceptable, 20fu is just absurd and would see it relegated to uselessness.

T34/85 is fine don't compare it to p4 they both should cost less 110 for ost and 130 for okw (and when they fix camo 110 jp4)

It's funny since OP asked for a 5f and 5mp increase (385mp/135f), nothing too crazy (it used to cost 400mp/140f) since it's MG got an buff (this was meant for the T34-76 variant).

Ideally, the MG shouldn't had been buffed but since there are a lot of files shared in the game, this was a collateral buff.

Then everyone loses their mind an axis/allies OP post filled the thread

Developer Comments: We felt the T-34/76 was under performing and needed some improvements to help deal with infantry.

The thing is it doesn't outperform by every comparable standard. It wins 1v1 against other meds and is superior in the AT role. It also has worse abilities, worse vet, worse stats in some other areas.

It will also 1v1 panthers @ frontal armour 30% of the time, while it outperforms in AI against everything axis has.

Having worse vet is debatable. It's a flanking tank, rather than a long range slugger. It punishes turret-less tanks if you can come in wide.

Of course it's stats are different. Different in a way that makes it more useful. It's faster w/ good turret rotation, better AT DPS, better AI DPS and in a pinch it can cap a point.

Being doctrinal is in effect a cost, because by choosing a doctrine with t34/85 you have the opportunity cost of the other doctrinal options you forego. This is especially true for sovs which are still quite reliant on doctrinal units. On the other hand you forego nothing by building core units. Of course that doesn't excuse doctrinal units being OP but you can't just dismiss it out of hand. True that many doctrinal units are useless but that doesn't mean the t34/85 must be, it just means those useless units need a buff or a rework.

The argument of being doctrinal is a cost is a bit of a stretch. If that were true, than all doctrinal units should be AS cost efficient as the T35/85 and then everyone would be using doctrinal units rather than core units, which was a huge problem in the game a year or 2 ago.

Sovs are in a pretty good place right now. As always there are some things that need attention but the t34/85 doesn't need to be high on the priority list. If it truly does need a nerf then 5 fu would be acceptable, 20fu is just absurd and would see it relegated to uselessness.

There are a lot of things that need attention. When I play soviets, I almost always choose a doctrine w/ the 34/85. It's also worth noting that the most widely used soviet Doctrine in the last ESL tournament has a t34/85 in it. I believe it had a large margin of the second most used doctrine.

The argument of being doctrinal is a cost is a bit of a stretch. If that were true, than all doctrinal units should be AS cost efficient as the T35/85 and then everyone would be using doctrinal units rather than core units, which was a huge problem in the game a year or 2 ago.

I would say choosing a doctrinal unit definitely comes at cost. It is not a ressource like fuel or manpower. It is a lot more similar to the ressource population (of course not the same). Choosing a doctrine takes away other options that could swing the game into your favour. So there is a cost named flexibility/varibility.

In addition I wouldn't lump all doctrinal units together. There are two types:

1) A type of unit that is not in your non-doctrinal roster. Something like a new toy that adds a new game mechanic. For example a Priest for USF, an Elephant for Wehrmacht or all falls and infiltration troops. There are many more, but they have something in common: This units do not have to perform better than comparable units of other factions because they already gifting the player with whole new options he wouldn't have otherwise.

2) A type of unit that is very similar to a unit you already have in your non-doctrinal roster. It is pretty clear that this unit would be completely useless, if it wouldn't be better in cost to performance ratio or would come out earlier or/and as some kind of call-in. As they removed the call-in mechanic of T34/85 and placed both T34s in the same tier there is not much left but T34/85 beeing the better tank in cost to performance ratio or beeing a completely useless doctrinal choice.