Mortar pit veterancy

Look, we all disagree about how to balance the mortar pit, but can we at least agree that its veterency requirements are preposterously small?

You can get to Vet 3 with 8 kills. That is astoundingly ridiculous.
To compare, I put a sturmtiger in cheatmode. It took 186 kills to get to Vet 3.

I know this is not exact science, because of how the mortar pit often does damage without killing, whereas sturm pretty much annihilates. However, when you see a mortar pit that has 3 stars of veterancy and it has only been up for 2 minutes, something is really wrong.

Relic, at the very least, adjust the Vet requirements for certain weapons.

Look, we all disagree about how to balance the mortar pit, but can we at least agree that its veterency requirements are preposterously small?

You can get to Vet 3 with 8 kills. That is astoundingly ridiculous.
To compare, I put a sturmtiger in cheatmode. It took 186 kills to get to Vet 3.

Relic, at the very least, you need to adjust your Vet requirements for certain weapons.

Note it's generally not by kills, but by damage done. Mortars can end up killing only 1-2 models but be Veterancy 2-3 because they've AOEed everyone in a squad. Furthermore, tanks generally get considerably less experience for killing infantry as their requirements are set very high compared to infantry and they shoot as less expensive stuff. SturmsTigers need to hit things like vehicle for that massive spike in veterancy gain while now the Brummbar vets up very well with the recent changes.

Rapid veterancy gain though is a Brit thing in general. Their army vets up incredibly quickly for certain units such as their tanks when they get the tank commander, previously Tommies, and units like the Mortar pit who have lower requirements compared to their price. though not by that much.

Regular 240mp Mortar Requirements

480/960/1920

Mortar Pit Requirements

700/1400/2100

Mortar 120mm

960/1920/3840

Look, we all disagree about how to balance the mortar pit, but can we at least agree that its veterency requirements are preposterously small?

You can get to Vet 3 with 8 kills. That is astoundingly ridiculous.
To compare, I put a sturmtiger in cheatmode. It took 186 kills to get to Vet 3.

I know this is not exact science, because of how the mortar pit often does damage without killing, whereas sturm pretty much annihilates. However, when you see a mortar pit that has 3 stars of veterancy and it has only been up for 2 minutes, something is really wrong.

Relic, at the very least, adjust the Vet requirements for certain weapons.

All mortars have the same vet requirements, basis on purchase (men power).
You want change all mortars?

PS: offcourse, soviet one is nerfed to hell

Also remember that the mortar pit's vet bonuses aren't actually that impressive.

Off hand:
Vet 1 - creeping smoke barrage
Vet 2 - lower cooldown on barrage
Vet 3 - Better survivability (1.5x health)

There's nothing in there that improves the offensive firepower other than the reduced barrage cooldown.

Also remember that the mortar pit's vet bonuses aren't actually that impressive.

Off hand:
Vet 1 - creeping smoke barrage
Vet 2 - lower cooldown on barrage
Vet 3 - Better survivability (1.5x health)

There's nothing in there that improves the offensive firepower other than the reduced barrage cooldown.

Out of those 3 I think the survivability buff is the thing the mortar pit benefits from that most, I mean, the smoke is use VERY rarely in the case of you wanting to cover a retreating advance or cover an infantry blob or something but then again the Brits also have access to lots of smoke in the form of the Cromwell's smoke rounds, the Churchill's fart smoke, Comet's smoke shells that get turned into Phosphorus.

However, out of all of those the Mortar Pit and Churchill smoke are the only ones that aren't bugged atm as as it stands the Cromwell and Comet's smoke abilities are bugged and sometimes won't even fire.

And the lower cooldown on barrage... I rarely concentrate fire with the mortar pit.

So yeah, it's not a HUGE impact but Vet 3 is deff something, combine that with the AER's Fortified Emplacements and Brace and it can survive even a nuke.

Note it's generally not by kills, but by damage done. Mortars can end up killing only 1-2 models but be Veterancy 2-3 because they've AOEed everyone in a squad. Furthermore, tanks generally get considerably less experience for killing infantry as their requirements are set very high compared to infantry and they shoot as less expensive stuff. SturmsTigers need to hit things like vehicle for that massive spike in veterancy gain while now the Brummbar vets up very well with the recent changes.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's some sort of cap for how much veterancy can be gained at once by at least kills, right? That would of course really hamper the ST's vet gain since they can only gain vet from a bunch of kills at once.

Note it's generally not by kills, but by damage done. Mortars can end up killing only 1-2 models but be Veterancy 2-3 because they've AOEed everyone in a squad. Furthermore, tanks generally get considerably less experience for killing infantry as their requirements are set very high compared to infantry and they shoot as less expensive stuff. SturmsTigers need to hit things like vehicle for that massive spike in veterancy gain while now the Brummbar vets up very well with the recent changes.

Rapid veterancy gain though is a Brit thing in general. Their army vets up incredibly quickly for certain units such as their tanks when they get the tank commander, previously Tommies, and units like the Mortar pit who have lower requirements compared to their price. though not by that much.

Regular 240mp Mortar Requirements

480/960/1920

Mortar Pit Requirements

700/1400/2100

Mortar 120mm

960/1920/3840

LUL wtf 120 mm mortar have 3840 to get vet 3 ?

Note it's generally not by kills, but by damage done. Mortars can end up killing only 1-2 models but be Veterancy 2-3 because they've AOEed everyone in a squad. Furthermore, tanks generally get considerably less experience for killing infantry as their requirements are set very high compared to infantry and they shoot as less expensive stuff. SturmsTigers need to hit things like vehicle for that massive spike in veterancy gain while now the Brummbar vets up very well with the recent changes.

Rapid veterancy gain though is a Brit thing in general. Their army vets up incredibly quickly for certain units such as their tanks when they get the tank commander, previously Tommies, and units like the Mortar pit who have lower requirements compared to their price. though not by that much.

Regular 240mp Mortar Requirements

480/960/1920

Mortar Pit Requirements

700/1400/2100

Mortar 120mm

960/1920/3840

keep in Mind that mortar pit is atleast 1.5 mortars in Terms of dmg Output

keep in Mind that mortar pit is atleast 1.5 mortars in Terms of dmg Output

Never having to go out of combat to heal or retreat to be reinforced definitely helps there too. The Mortar Pit either gains vet constantly from the enemy having to walk in range, gains none at all from the enemy avoiding it, or dies. If it covers two VPs, the middle option goes right out.

Exactly. With 700 hp plus brace (+vet 3 bonus) it can't be compared to a regular mortar whose weapon crew can be killed and thus veterancy extinguished MUCH more easily. It's pretty much a given that it will get max vet. So in that case, the requirements definitely need to be raised to slow this down.

Out of those 3 I think the survivability buff is the thing the mortar pit benefits from that most

What? Are you actually suggesting that?!

Never having to go out of combat to heal or retreat to be reinforced definitely helps there too. The Mortar Pit either gains vet constantly from the enemy having to walk in range, gains none at all from the enemy avoiding it, or dies. If it covers two VPs, the middle option goes right out.

Pretty much. With a regular mortar (except MHT) you need to worry about repositioning, retreating, reinforcing, healing, etc. all while under the constant threat of RNG-wipes. A mortar pit just needs to worry about not getting to 0hp (easy; repair instead of heal) and not being completely over-run (necessary for any static unit).

All mortars have the same vet requirements, basis on purchase (men power).
You want change all mortars?

PS: offcourse, soviet one is nerfed to hell

Yes, but unlike other mortars, the mortar pit requires far less micro to rank up. The effort:reward ratio is just far better.



All that said, the mortar pit vet is pretty underwhelming. Creeping smoke is massively underused (I don't think I've ever actually seen it) and the barrage cooldown is never used since 99% of players just "set and forget" the mortar pit. The only thing of note is the vet 3 HP upgrade, which is just silly: more HP on top of brace on top of being repaired by other buildings on top of possibly a doc-armor upgrade.

I think the trade-off is almost fair, though. It's easy to vet up, but vet 1 and 2 are basically pointless. It would be nice to see the requirements fixed, but the vet would need to be at least a bit more interesting; that or keep it like it is now, and make vet 3 not so crazy.

What? Are you actually suggesting that?!

Suggesting what? As a British player I'm telling you facts from first hand experience, ask anybody really, or better yet, try it for yourself.

I haven't built a pit in a while tho so maybe I'm wrong. I just find it a big sink of resources plus it's not really fun with it around, altho I'd really appreciate a mobile mortar team in order to get some more effective and mobile indirect fire.

keep in Mind that mortar pit is atleast 1.5 mortars in Terms of dmg Output

^ This

The Mortar pit vet requirements are too low, unless its meant to get its vet 2 times as fast as any other mortar unit.

The mortar pit vets fast because it hja the worst offensive vet of all mortars on top of already being the least cost efficient for dps.

The mortar pit vets fast because it hja the worst offensive vet of all mortars on top of already being the least cost efficient for dps.

Hold on a second. You can't ignore the fact that it does not need reinforcement costs and has a ridiculous health pool with a laser forcefield around it. To say it is the least cost efficient for dps is taking a fifth of the whole story. Plus it has two mortars inside and outranges other mortars also. Of all the justifications I cannot believe anyone would say it is weak for the money.

Hold on a second. You can't ignore the fact that it does not need reinforcement costs and has a ridiculous health pool with a laser forcefield around it. To say it is the least cost efficient for dps is taking a fifth of the whole story. Plus it has two mortars inside and outranges other mortars also. Of all the justifications I cannot believe anyone would say it is weak for the money.

1. Sappers get wiped from repairing it and the unit inside bleeds from being shot at, so it does have a reinforcement cost in practice
2. It has two mortars that are less cost efficient than two normal mortars. It outranges other mortars (only by 9 if you compare barrages) but other mortars can move to always be in range.
3. It can't move, so it will do less damage overall unless the battlefield stays in one place (which it may well do on bad maps like rails & metal, road to kharkov etc. but still)

1. Sappers get wiped from repairing it and the unit inside bleeds from being shot at, so it does have a reinforcement cost in practice
2. It has two mortars that are less cost efficient than two normal mortars. It outranges other mortars (only by 9 if you compare barrages) but other mortars can move to always be in range.
3. It can't move, so it will do less damage overall unless the battlefield stays in one place (which it may well do on bad maps like rails & metal, road to kharkov etc. but still)

It

Is

Situational

It

Is

Situational

You mean that those facts only situationally come into existence?

You mean that those facts only situationally come into existence?

As the mortar pit is only good on certain maps and stuff.